Thanks for listening to Wellness, Community, Magic, a podcast with a pro-donut, anti-racist, Glenda-the-good-witch agenda. In this episode, Elizabeth Moore and Ashley Brooke James join acupuncturist and owner of Encircle acupuncture, Alexa Hulsey, for a conversation about accessibility, earth magic, and the origin story of acupuncture in America.
This one is for the history enthusiasts and for anyone curious about acupuncture (don't worry, needle phobic folks, she says it doesn't hurt).
Join us next week for a conversation with Jenn Harbin about transracial adoption and writing your own origin story.
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Full Transcript:
[00:00:00] But most people don't realize that some of the earliest practitioners of acupuncture in this country where the black Panthers and the young Lords, and they were doing acupuncture to help their community and to help people get off of drugs and stay out of drugs and it worked remarkably well. That was the voice of Alexa Hulsey, the owner of Encircle Acupuncture in Nashville, which has been providing acupuncture in a community setting on an affordable sliding scale since 2010.
[00:00:31] She's also the co-creator of open ACU, an appointment scheduling and electronic health record system for acupuncturists. In 2020, she was named one of Nashville Business Journal's Women of Influence in the trailblazer category. Today we're talking about accessibility, earth magic, and the origin story of acupuncture in America.
[00:00:51] Hi everyone. We're your hosts, Ashley Brooke James and Elizabeth Moore, co-founders of TRILUNA and this is the Wellness Community Magic [00:01:00] podcast. A podcast with a pro donut, anti-racist, Glenda- the- good- witch agenda. We're here to take on diet culture by making self-care realistic, sustainable, and inclusive. So settle in, get cozy and join us on our journey to build community and redefined wellness. Let's get started.
[00:01:21] We are so excited to have you here. We like to start the podcast asking everyone the same question, but let me go ahead and tell you right now, we already have a dozen glazed donuts already that has been given away and we have them boxed up and they're shipped out. So we are no longer in stock of glazed donuts.
[00:01:43] So what donut would you be in line? Well can I be a chocolate glazed donut? Sure. Yes, absolutely. That's me. I'm a Krispy Kreme chocolate glazed donut. There's just a little something [00:02:00] extra about it with the chocolate glaze on top. And I also have a really strong emotional connection to the Krispy Kreme chocolate glazed donut because when I was in college my college cafeteria would have just trays of Krispy Kremes out for the taking every morning.
[00:02:17] And on mornings, when I made it to the cafeteria, I would eat two Krispy Kreme chocolate glazed donuts for breakfast every morning, like all the time. I don't know how I didn't develop like major tooth decay from eating all of these donuts every morning. Um, but I just, it just reminds me of being in college and, you know, just sort of living in the dorms and being young and full of possibilities and eating as many donuts as I like.
[00:02:48] And they're delicious too. Yeah. I really think that we need to talk to Krispy Kreme about a sponsorship. I do. We definitely need to talk to them. Hey, Krispy Kreme, if you hear us, we [00:03:00] are talking to you and just for the listeners out there, I only have six more glazed donuts with the chocolate on top so I'm going to keep an inventory now of what donuts are picked and what goes. It's so interesting to me that most of your guests don't see themselves as a fancy, like sprinkle color.
[00:03:18] I know. Yeah, me too. I mean, we even have. You know, our friends are reaching out to us on the side, we get text message like, why is everyone at glazed donut? So we're just all real salt of the earth kind of people, I guess. But, you know, I think that that's true and I think that that is, um, kind of the classic entrepreneur and just, I think by chance most of our people have been entrepreneurs.
[00:03:43] Yes, absolutely. And it makes sense. You just said that didn't you? Yeah, but I just didn't realize it. I don't know how I didn't realize that before, but most of them are. Huh? Yeah. Hey, Krispy Kreme, you all probably know this cause I'm sure you have your finger on the pulse of [00:04:00] the donut world, but Krispy Kreme is giving away donuts to people who've been vaccinated.
[00:04:05] Yes, I know. That's amazing. I know, it is one for each time, right? Yeah. That's exciting! I think you get it every single day with your vaccine card. So thank you Krispy Kreme for helping people get vaccinated.
[00:04:30] Yes. And if you ever want to do a Downdog to Donut yoga class with TRILUNA, here we are. But enough of that. Today's guest, we are so excited about. Alexa is uh, she's our mentor. She's our friend, she's been here from day one, day one, day one. I mean, I remember having a conversation with you at Burger Up in East Nashville.
[00:04:57] Yes. When we first met and we were asking you [00:05:00] about how we should name our company. That's right. You all didn't even have a name yet. We didn't even have a name. And I remember you telling us, you guys could make something up. And I remember you saying, you know, Verizon is not like a real word. Like they made that up and then I will never forget that.
[00:05:17] And then we became fan girls and then the rest is history. You're never ever getting out of our lives so we're super excited to have you here. Thank you. And I, and I want to say too, that I feel like you all have become mentors to me in a way as well, because you have really become such leaders and showing what an anti-racist wellness organization looks like and how to do that.
[00:05:43] And the work that you all are doing in bridging anti-racism and wellness is so important and you're setting an example for so many of us. I just got chills and I think we just tear up when we get compliments [00:06:00] these days or when people say anything sweet to us. We're like, "thank you." Thank you. But we really appreciate it.
[00:06:07] Can you tell our listeners a little bit about who you are? Yes. Well, my name is Alexa Hulsey. I am an Acupuncturist. I've been practicing acupuncture for 16 years here in Nashville, uh, for more than 10 years and I own Encircle Acupuncture and we are a community acupuncture clinic. We've got two locations and our mission is to make acupuncture affordable and accessible for as many people as possible because it is a wonderful treatment for so many things and I want more people to be getting acupuncture.
[00:06:47] In the way that I do that with my business and the way that my coworkers have, uh, helped me in that is by making our service open to all. And we just have it a policy of all are welcome and [00:07:00] accepted in our clinic and we make it affordable too. Yeah. And I think this, a conversation with you necessitates a conversation about access, I think, and you have a, a pay scale, is that correct?
[00:07:12] Yes. We have a sliding scale, so we charge $20 to $40 per treatment and the way that our sliding scale works is that you as a patient, you decide what you're paying on that scale. So we don't do income requirements. We don't ask people to bring in pay stubs, nothing like that. It's, it's a question of how does acupuncture fit into your life with all of the other demands on your budget and your resources?
[00:07:39] What, what will make this work for you? Some people pay 20. Some people pay 40. Some people pay a different amount every time. A lot of people have an income that fluctuates so they don't know how much they're going to get paid from week to week. So we're really about putting choice back to the consumer or the patient.
[00:07:58] And people are not used [00:08:00] to having choices in healthcare and that idea of giving choice back to the patient is, can really be life-changing. It's, it's a really radical way to do things, but, um, I think it's a way that, that it needs to be done because people, people feel helpless in healthcare. They don't know how much they're going to pay for a surgery or just a procedure or a doctor visit and then they get a bill from the lab for something else, and it's overwhelming.
[00:08:28] They don't necessarily choose who they can see. And all of this adds up to a lot of dissatisfaction in healthcare. So we want to put choice back onto the patient. Why did you choose to go in this field? What made you? Yeah. Um, so I had always been interested in healthcare, so I always knew from a young age that whatever I wanted to do with my life, I want it to be helping people in some way.
[00:08:54] I didn't know exactly what that looked like, but, um, I always knew that my life was not going to [00:09:00] be about making money. I mean, making money's nice. We all need money, but I was, I always knew that I was going to be really mission-driven in my career and I was interested in healthcare. I did not want to be a part of the, uh, allopathic healthcare model in this country.
[00:09:19] It just really wasn't interested in doing that. So I started looking at complimentary health care and what would be something that would interest me? I really first got interested in herbs. I was really interested in herbal medicine. There's a rich history of Chinese herbal medicine and as I started doing research I learned that Chinese herbal medicine is paired with acupuncture in this country, in, in how people are educated and how people are licensed.
[00:09:47] And so it was like, well, I could learn herbal medicine and acupuncture at the same time, get a license to legitimately and legally practice medicine and do it in a way where I would have a lot [00:10:00] of freedom. Um, of course then I became an entrepreneur. So now I have no freedom. Right. Um, but, but I wanted to do it on my own terms and I, and I knew that I could do that with acupuncture.
[00:10:14] And, um, and then I started getting treatments and I just felt like, wow, this is really magic. I can't believe that these needles actually have such profound effects on the body even for, for someone like me, who I didn't really have any health issues. I was just doing acupuncture to try it and I still felt the benefits of it and then started seeing how it benefits people who are really sick and it just, um, it just, it just jived with me.
[00:10:40] I'm really glad that you said the word magic because acupuncture is interesting in that it's like one of the holistic things that the medical world is kind of like, yeah, sure, maybe. Whereas everything else, you know, is like kind of off limits and we know that it works like we have, we have like lots of data that it works, but we don't [00:11:00] exactly know why. Is that correct?
[00:11:01] That is correct. That feels like real earth magic medicine to me. Can you talk about like, what is acupuncture and, and like, why do we not know how it works? It works on the level of Qi (Chi) which is hard to measure, and it's hard to quantify. And that's how, how we really don't know how it works. So acupuncture is the insertion of fine needles into the skin to effect a change in the body.
[00:11:32] And the way that we look at disease and illness is that disease and illness are caused by blockages Qi (Chi) and Qi (Chi) is your energy that runs throughout your body and it courses along Meridian pathways. So these are similar to the blood vessels. Qi (Chi) is invisible. It can't be seen or measured like blood, but we know it's there.
[00:11:51] It's what makes us alive. It flows along these pathways. And so we insert the needles along these Meridian pathways to remove blockages. [00:12:00] One of the really cool things about acupuncture is that it helps the body self regulate. So I think of the needles as a message. I'm sending a message to a patient's body when I put a needle in them and it's calling their body's attention to an area that's out of balance and then the body does the work.
[00:12:19] So people ask me, is there medicine in the needles? No, there's not. The medicine is already in you. You are the medicine. The needles are just bringing that out in you. It's allowing your body to do its own healing.
[00:12:33] There have been some studies to try to show, you know, what happens in the brain. Are there different areas of the brain that are lighting up when an acupuncture needle goes in. Their looking, um, infrared, are there different areas of heat or cold along the Meridian pathway when a needle goes in? And, and yes, some of that has been documented, but the actual mechanism is really impossible to measure.
[00:13:00] [00:13:00] And it is because it's, it's that earth magic. It's something that is within us that is unquantifiable. It's just part of us. It's it's our, it's our life force. That's so interesting. Yeah. So I think acupuncture can be a little scary, right? If somebody, when you say insertion of a needle, that can sound really scary, but they're really tiny needles and I've, I've done acupuncture with you and, and with other places and it isn't painful.
[00:13:30] And can you talk about why it's not and how small those needles actually are? Yes, absolutely. The needles are hair thin. I mean, they're really about the width of two hairs. Um, they go in just under the surface of the skin. So they might be going just to the skin level. They might go into a muscle.
[00:13:48] Sometimes people ask if, if acupuncture affects the nervous system and it does, but the needles don't actually touch your nerves. That would be painful. They, because they're so [00:14:00] thin, it's really just a minimal sensation if any sensation at all. Now, sometimes there is a sensation and sometimes an acupuncturist will manipulate a needle once it's in the body, because that's just one form of acupuncture.
[00:14:12] You do a bunch of manipulation to get the Qi (Chi) moving. That can be an uncomfortable situation sometimes because there, there might be a dull achy sensation. We call it, we call that Da Qi (Chi) , which just means your Qi (Chi) is moving. And it's, so that's a good thing. Any sensation that you feel lasts for about a minute and then that's it.
[00:14:33] So people think needles and they think hypodermic needles. They think of getting a shot. It's nothing like that. We treat kids with acupuncture. I've treated babies with acupuncture. It's a sensation that is, it's so minimal. I don't ever want anyone's anxiety about the needles to prevent them from trying it. And we treat needle-phobic people all the time.
[00:14:57] They come in, they're like, "I'm so scared. This [00:15:00] is going to hurt." And we're like, let's just try it. If you're uncomfortable, we can stop, but let's just try it. And they're, they're always fine. Always. Yeah. It's so you, were talking about how it can seem a little scary. It can seem a little intimidating.
[00:15:13] It's this weird thing of sticking needles in your body. And, and that's another reason why I think it's so important to make our services accessible, because like that, that anxiety about needles, like that's a, that's an area of friction. Like that's, that gives somebody an excuse to not try it. Like, eh, I don't know about the needles.
[00:15:34] And then if it is something expensive, then that's just another reason for them not to try it. And so when we're asking people to do something new and to do something intimidating and to do something foreign, we have to make it as easy as possible. It has to feel as comfortable as possible. And if they really can't get behind the needles, then there is acupressure, right?And will you talk about what that is?
[00:15:59] Yeah. So [00:16:00] acupressure utilizes the same points and meridians. It's just a different tool. It's just using your hands, thumbs fingers instead of a needle. Acupressure is great because you can do it to yourself. We have started putting out a lot of more acupressure resources out there during the pandemic, because we've had a lot of patients who haven't been able to get to us. And when the pandemic started, we, uh, we shut down for two months. We didn't see any patients. We had all these patients contacting us who were used to coming in once or twice a week for regular acupuncture; now they were getting nothing and they were like, I'm so miserable. Please, what can I do?
[00:16:38] And so we started sharing some acupressure resources and it's, it's really effective. It's, it's not the same because when you're doing acupressure to yourself, you're, you're doing the work yourself so it's not like you get to go take a nap for an hour as if you were getting acupuncture, but it's just moving the Qi (Chi) in a different way.
[00:16:58] You can also get [00:17:00] acupressure from another person. A lot of massage therapists incorporate acupressure into their offerings, and it's an incredibly effective. It moves the Qi (Chi) it's just using a different tool.
[00:17:12] I have a question. For so long when you think of acupuncture, you think of the wealthy, right? Like I thought it was expensive until I met you and learned about Encircle. Encircle is actually the first company, the only time I've ever been, but why do you think, because it's such an earthy thing, why do you think that it has been labeled as you have to be wealthy to get this type of treatment?
[00:17:42] Yeah, it's, it's really interesting. Um, because acupuncture traditionally in Asia has been a form of healthcare for everyone. It was traditionally practiced in group settings like we do at Encircle and not in a one-on-one setting. And then it [00:18:00] changed when it made its way to the United States in North America.
[00:18:04] So do you, should we get into a little history lesson? Yeah, let's do this. I was going to say, let's do it. I know where this is going. Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting. So acupuncture really first came to the United States in the 1850s when the first wave of Chinese immigrants came to the United States after the civil war and they were doing a lot of the reconstruction building railroads. And so they brought acupuncture with them because that was medicine that they'd practiced in China. But, uh, but a lot of people didn't really didn't really pay attention, notice, it really didn't become mainstream at all. So then in 1972, Richard Nixon, who was president at the time, went to China.
[00:18:48] It was the first president to do so. It was shocking when he announced that he was going to China. I mean, China was closed off from the West, but he went. And when he went a [00:19:00] member of the white house press Corps developed appendicitis, and he had to have an emergency appendectomy and they did acupuncture anesthesia for his appendectomy.
[00:19:11] And so he wrote about it. His name was James Reston and he was a reporter with, I forget, Washington Post, maybe. Um, he, so he wrote about acupuncture and published this article and that's how a lot of people in the United States were first introduced to acupuncture. And then some other, um, articles follow and people just sort of gradually gained knowledge about this strange form of medicine.
[00:19:36] So a lot of people, especially acupuncturists already know that part of the story. A lesser known part of the story takes place in the 1970s in the Bronx. In the 1970s in the Bronx, heroin was a huge, huge problem. So the black Panthers and the young Lords, both of whom were groups of [00:20:00] community acupuncture, not acupuncturist, community activists.
[00:20:04] So the black Panthers and the young Lords decided to take over the hospital in their community, Lincoln Hospital. Lincoln Hospital had terrible conditions and they documented thousands of complaints from patients. And so they took over the hospital and they had a list of demands. And one of the demands was a drug treatment program because heroin was such a huge problem and they wanted a way to help people get off of heroin without methadone.
[00:20:35] Methadone was the accepted treatment at the time and a lot of addicts were really required to be on methadone if they wanted to get any kind of government benefits. They called it the liquid handcuffs because methadone is something that you have to take everyday for the rest of your life. Um, so, so the black Panthers and the young Lords were looking for other options and one of the black Panther leaders, Dr. [00:21:00] ,he read an article about acupuncture and he thought, well, let's try this. And he and some of the other party members, they found a doctor in Montreal, trained with him. They traveled to China and trained, and they started using acupuncture in their drug detox program and it worked. It worked remarkably well.
[00:21:23] And so this program at Lincoln Hospital, Lincoln Hospital eventually sort of kicked them out. They had to open somewhere else. They were also doing a lot of political education in their, uh, in their drug treatment program. The program at Lincoln Hospital eventually became the foundation for NADA, which is an organization, the National Acupuncture Detox Association, and their five point protocol.
[00:21:47] They have a five point protocol using the ears. It was developed there and it's still used in lots of drug treatment facilities. But most people don't realize that some of the earliest practitioners of acupuncture in this country [00:22:00] where the black Panthers and the young Lords, and they were doing acupuncture to help their community and to help people get off of drugs and stay out of drugs and it worked remarkably well.
[00:22:12] So acupuncture in its early days in this country was a real community based medicine and people were getting acupuncture every day. Hmm. So how did it become something then that's associated with wealthy people? It's really all about pricing. So sort of concurrently with what the black Panthers and the young Lords were doing, the other people who got interested in acupuncture were massage therapists and they thought, okay, this is really cool. This can be a compliment to what we're already doing with massage therapy. And so they really just incorporated acupuncture with the massage therapy model, which is seeing patients one-on-one.
[00:22:50] And so acupuncture became a one-on-one kind of a treatment. And so they were charging pretty much massage therapy rates for acupuncture, [00:23:00] even though in Asia, like I said, acupuncture is traditionally practiced in groups so prices started to go up and then as more people got interested in acupuncture, more white people got interested in practicing acupuncture, and this was soon followed by the regulation of acupuncture.
[00:23:22] So with that came licensing, credentialing, education, continuing education exams, and these are not bad things, but they all add to the cost of being a provider. And so now acupuncture school is three or four years. People are graduating with student loan debt. There aren't a lot of jobs for acupuncturists so acupuncturist become entrepreneurs whether they want to or not so there's a cost associated with that.
[00:23:50] And so it costs a lot to be a provider. And so then unfortunately for a lot of people, it costs a lot to get acupuncture because you're paying, you're still paying [00:24:00] for this one-on-one model. So what our clinic does, and there are community acupuncture clinics like ours around the country, what we do is we go back to the group setting. And so instead of treating one patient at a time, we're treating six, seven, eight patients at a time.
[00:24:16] Everybody can then pay less and we make the same amount of money. I mean, it's simple math and it works. I mean a patient doesn't need an hour of my time to get a good treatment. They really only need a few minutes. And then again, because their body is the one doing the work, what's really important is that they just rest and while they're resting with the needles in, I get to go on and treat somebody else.
[00:24:39] Did the history play a part in you wanting to bring back this community? It's interesting. I didn't know the history before I became a community acupuncturist and a lot of, a lot of acupuncturists have not known the history until relatively recently. Um, I mean, it was kind of talked about in terms of NADA and the [00:25:00] detox association, but really there have been, uh, a handful of people working to try to bring this history to light.
[00:25:07] One is Dr. Tanesha Dandridge. She's an acupuncturist in Sacramento. She's done a lot of writing and education about this. There is the Black Acupuncturist Association. They are doing a lot of educating about this um, and uh, filmmaker Mia Donovan, she's Canadian filmmaker. She recently released a film, um, about this, this history in South Bronx and it's a fascinating film. I encourage everyone to watch it because it's about way more than acupuncture.
[00:25:36] Yeah, that's so interesting. I had no idea. Yeah, I didn't either a lot of acupuncturists haven't known about this. Uh, and, and we need, we need to know about our history. You know, we have to know how this medicine has traditionally been practiced and what works about that.
[00:25:52] And, you know, I think about what you all do with yoga. You're both yoga instructors. Yoga comes from another culture. Acupuncture comes from [00:26:00] another culture. And when we are using these tools from other cultures, we have to be sure to honor where that's coming from. I think that it's okay to use tools from other cultures because they have something to offer everyone.
[00:26:12] Yoga has something to offer everyone, so does acupuncture. And that's how the tradition stays alive is by more people using it. But we have to honor where it comes from. You're absolutely right. And I, and that is something that we both are transitioning to. Um, making sure that we're honoring it. And I don't mean to put you on the spot, Liz, but you know where I'm going with this.
[00:26:38] Liz is actually had a very hard time as a white woman teaching yoga right now with everything that's been going on and we just had this conversation this morning. And so when you say that I can't help but to think of my business partner right now and what she's working through and just trying to find that balance but I know when you do.
[00:26:56] Yeah. I'm actually not teaching [00:27:00] yoga right now unless we really don't have a sub because I'm, I'm doing the work. I'm kind of like in the middle of the work right now. Um, I'm doing a lot of reading and a lot of research and having a lot of conversations and, and trying to figure out how to teach yoga without being appropriative.
[00:27:16] And I just don't. I agree that there, that there is a way to do it and to do it with less harm. I just haven't quite figured out what that is yet for me and so I'm letting other people take the lead, especially Ashley or our company, and then, uh, other BIPOC leaders in this space I think need to be in the forefront right now so I'm just taking a pause.
[00:27:38] I think that's great. And I mean, that is, that's something that, that white women are learning to do and I hope continue learning to do is to, to take that step back and let somebody else take the lead and listen. So I think that's, that's important work too. [00:28:00] Yeah, I think in the wellness community in general, we need some reflection.
[00:28:05] And part of that too, is like brings up the conversation of like how expensive it's gotten to get certified. I mean, especially even in the yoga community, you know, those programs are usually only like a few months long, but it's thousands of dollars and that is incredibly inhibitive. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And it takes a long time to work that off.
[00:28:27] Like you don't make a lot of money in it. And so you get loaded with this debt that you can't pay off and it makes it harder to get into if you don't come from privilege. Right. And I see some parallels in the acupuncture profession too, because what ends up happening is that some practitioners, not all, definitely not all, but some practitioners of acupuncture do it more as a hobby because it's, it's hard to work off that debt, like you said, and to really [00:29:00] make a good living at it and so you either have to try to, you know, build some yoga empire where you are doing all these other things or charging a lot of money or you sort of teach here and there, but it's your side hustle. And I think that happens so much just in wellness in general, right?
[00:29:23] Because wellness can be expensive there's a limited number of customers or consumers, right? So that just creates scarcity for everyone. Yeah. It, it just, the whole model feels just steeped in white supremacy culture to me right now. And I think when we think of acupuncture being expensive, or we think about yoga being expensive and Ashley and I have had this conversation so many times.
[00:29:47] I, at one point, literally wanted to remove the word wellness from our company because what we do is so different and the space we landed in is that like, let's be the Trojan horse of wellness. Let's like kind of mess it up from the inside [00:30:00] and like shake things up from the inside, shake it up and get in there and not be what people expect but I think when a lot of people think about wellness, they think about Goop.
[00:30:08] They think about Gwyneth Paltrow and these like incredibly expensive serums that, that don't do anything. And like this like kind of pseudoscience that ends up being ultimately harmful. And then, you know, Gwyneth Paltrow herself has been like, I look this way because I drink green juice and I. And I love water.
[00:30:28] It's like, no girl, you look that way because you have a personal trainer and a private chef and millions of dollars, and you can afford all these treatments and all these expensive things. Like stop telling people that if they drink a green juice, they can look like you because that's not what wellness is about and that's not what works.
[00:30:44] Let me just put this disclaimer in there. You can not drink a green juice in substitute for the vaccine. I just wanted to put that out there. Yes. Thank you for including that. I think you're getting at something [00:31:00] that's so prevalent in the wellness space, for sure, but also in healthcare in general is to put all of the responsibility on the patient, consumer, customer, whatever.
[00:31:13] And that, if you don't look like Gwyneth Paltrow, then you are doing something wrong and you need to buy more Jade's vaginal eggs or whatever. Um, and we don't spend enough time talking about the real, real causes of disease, and what's really going on systemically to make people sick and keep them sick.
[00:31:40] Right. And do you know I think about, I mean, I think about just food, something as basic as food. Everyone knows that vegetables are good for you and that fast food is bad for you. So we talk about, Oh, well people need to make better choices but we don't talk about, well, what are the choices in front of a person?
[00:31:58] And if a person lives [00:32:00] in an area that doesn't have a grocery store and the only place they can get food is from the convenience store on the corner, well that doesn't give them a lot of options. Right. And we don't, we don't talk enough about that. Right. And at that point, if the, if the choice is not eating or eating fast food, then it's not bad for you. It's literally keeping you alive.
[00:32:20] Right, exactly. You know, it's like, there's so much black and white thinking in the wellness community, but everything exists in shades of gray. Yes. And everything exists in context. Yeah. Oh man. I was about to say, we're going to start a whole nother side of the podcast now. But we we have to look at these causes and there's research being done.
[00:32:46] I mean, we, we know that there's a huge gap in health care outcomes in this country. And we know that black and Brown people have worse outcomes than, than white people. We [00:33:00] know that LGBTQ people have worse health outcomes than hetero cisgender people. Like we know this. The research is out there. I mean, I, I jotted down some notes before this because it just like, it just keeps going on and on.
[00:33:18] I mean, so African-Americans have higher rates of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, kidney disease, stroke and maternal death than their white counterparts. There was a Robert Wood Johnson foundation study and it showed that every seven minutes a black person dies prematurely in this country. And every day experiences of racial discrimination lead to premature aging and death.
[00:33:40] It's just so obvious that racism is a cause of disease and we have to acknowledge that. And it's not on the individual. It's not that the individual is doing something wrong or not practicing enough wellness or not drinking enough green juice. Like this is a systemic [00:34:00] problem. Right, right. Right. The, the narrative of wellness is that if you are not, well, it is your fault.
[00:34:07] Right? What do we always say? The world always makes this thing that we're not well enough and it's just this continuous cycle. Um, because that sells more stuff. Yep. Yep. It's, it's infuriating really. Yeah and we, we talk about this all the time, obviously, but we've kind of come up with like five new pillars of wellness that we think are more accessible and actually are more helpful.
[00:34:34] And, and it's, it's less things like green juice and serums, and it's more like sleep and community. It's like these things that combat systemic issue, systemic racism, systemic stress and hustle culture. Like there are these things that are, that we have no control over as individuals that impact our health that we have to be able to acknowledge in order to [00:35:00] move forward from.
[00:35:03] You always be looking at me like you want me to add something and I'm like... She speaks for the both of us. Everyone. No. Well, it's, it's been shown that loneliness is as deadly as smoking. I mean, loneliness is a cause of disease. The UK appointed a minister of loneliness because it's such a huge problem. And so that gets to, you know, your pillar of community. I mean community is vital to wellness. That's all we hear now, right?
[00:35:34] Isolation, talk about feeling isolated. And that's why it's really important for us to just be able to, when we create this content online, you know, prerecorded, trying to make it interactive as possible so they feel like we're right there with them. And that is something that we both care so, so much about and last year just made it more clear of what we need to be doing to help our [00:36:00] community be well.
[00:36:01] Yeah, we've been sounding the alarm about this long before the pandemic. And so it's like, it's a little frustrating and heartbreaking to see it happening when we thought that it would happen and hoped that we can.
[00:36:14] And that's why we take the Trojan horse approach because we do need wellness, we just need it redefined. We need a new definition for the future of wellness. Yes, that we do. Well we could talk to you forever. I know, this has been so interesting. Forever and ever and ever. It has been interesting. I love the history portion of all that.
[00:36:41] I think me and Liz were like little kids, tell me more. That's what I've been learning about it. Yeah. Before we go, I just want to briefly talk through what it's like to walk into your space because I think for anyone that's experiencing anxiety, it is actually an incredibly calming, peaceful [00:37:00] experience. I think I've passed out every single time in those chairs. I fall asleep and I wake up really, really rested. And it's like, uh, you know, it's only like an hour. It's not like I'm taking a full night of sleep, but it is an incredibly restful period so will you just talk through what it looks like to walk into your space?
[00:37:16] Sure. It used to be that you could walk in and have a cup of tea. We don't have, we don't have tea right now. One day we will. But yeah, you walk in our waiting room is really big and open and I, I always hate the experience of walking into a doctor's office and there's like the sliding glass window and there's like a person, like on the other side, that's like, it's like, you're talking to someone who's in prison or something so ours is very open. You walk into the waiting room. It's very open. And then, um, in the treatment room, our treatment room looks like a big living room full of second hand recliners.
[00:37:52] Yeah. And you just, you just pick out a recliner, you get comfortable. There are other people in there with you, [00:38:00] which sounds weird, but everybody's in their own little world and the recliners are spaced out.
[00:38:05] You're not on top of each other, but nobody's paying attention to anybody else in the treatment room. So sometimes people feel a little strange about that. Like, Oh, there's going to be other people in the room with me. It's not an issue at all. Everybody's in their own world. You get comfortable. The acupuncturist comes up to you.
[00:38:23] We chat for a few minutes. What's going on? How's everything feeling? Is anything better? Is anything worse? Then the needles go in. That process only takes a few minutes and then the bulk of the time you're there for up to an hour, your in a recliner. zoning out. Some people sleep. Some people listen to a podcast, some people read, but you're, you're just there.
[00:38:44] That that time is yours. I like for people to try to be distraction free when they're there, but I'm also not going to dictate how someone's going to use their time. So at that time is yours and you can do with it what you like and a lot of people just [00:39:00] relax. And then after an hour we come take your needles out and you go about your way.
[00:39:04] People generally feel really relaxed afterwards. Um, if they're dealing with a pain condition, they might feel some immediate relief, not always right in the beginning stage of treatment. Um, some people feel really energized afterwards, but it, it feels like you've had a really nice refreshing nap. And I will say this. As someone from the BIPOC community, even entering into that space because I know for myself, when I thought about acupuncture, I thought this is a white person's thing.
[00:39:33] I think because you have created that community environment, you have again, opened up the doors for everyone to come in. So when I came, it felt very welcoming because I wasn't the only black person in the room, you know. It wasn't just me and another black person or another BIPOC, you know, in the room.
[00:39:54] You really have set it up in an area in our community where you could pull [00:40:00] in that diverse clientele so I have to tell you that that's great and I personally appreciate you for that, so thank you very much. I love hearing that because that has been very intentional. I never have wanted our clinic to just be a sea of white faces because this medicine is for everyone.
[00:40:19] Yeah. Well, I appreciate you for that. So thank you very, very much. Our next goal will be to get our partners in with us. Yes, absolutely. I've told Bernard and he needs it. I have to tell him about the non-threatening needles. I've already told them that it is not, but anyways. My friend, we appreciate you.
[00:40:42] Liz, I think that's it and that's all. Alright, peace out.
[00:40:51] Thank you for listening to Wellness Community Magic. This season is coming to a close soon while we work on some big projects, but you can keep up with us by [00:41:00] following us on Instagram at Triluna_wellness, or signing up for our newsletter at trilunawellness.com. You can also join our community on patreon at patreon.com/wellnesspodcast for early access to episodes behind the same content and additional wellness resources, including a PDF of our Downdog to Donuts workbook. Staying tuned for more updates and keep an eye out for us on Clubhouse as well.