Thanks for listening to Wellness, Community, Magic, a podcast with a pro-donut, anti-racist, Glenda-the-good-witch agenda. In this extra-special episode, Elizabeth Moore and Ashley Brooke James join Elizabeth's best friend, Jenn Harbin, for a discussion around identity, isolation, and the complexities of transracial adoption.
If you have ever considered adopting a child, this episode is for you.
Join us next week for a season send-off straight from our team retreat. There's big news coming -- you don't want to miss this one.
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[00:00:00] You know, there's a beautiful story of the decision they made to adopt, what went into that decision. I was told that story and I love that story, but what's missing and what had been missing for me for a very long time is like, what is the beginning of that story for me?
[00:00:20] That was the voice of Jenn Harbin, a Korean American adoptee, who was adopted from South Korea by a white family and raised in a small city outside of Shreveport Louisiana. She spent most of her life in the South, but recently moved to Seoul to further explore her identity and connect with her birth country, culture and language she never knew growing up. Today we're talking about identity, isolation and the complexity of transracial adoption.
[00:00:50] Hi everyone. We're your hosts, Ashley Brooke James and Elizabeth Moore, co-founders of TRILUNA and this is the Wellness Community Magic podcast; a [00:01:00] podcast with a pro-donut, anti-racist, Glenda-the-good witch agenda. We're here to take on diet culture by making self-care realistic, sustainable, and inclusive. So settle in, get cozy and join us on our journey to build community and redefine wellness. Let's get started.
[00:01:21] Well, this is pretty special because Jen is your best friend. I remember the first time that Elizabeth and I decided to be business partners and we were working and she was like, I'm meeting my best friend Jenn after this. And, you know, just talking about you and I thought you were white. I did. And then I saw you and I see this beautiful Korean American [00:02:00] individual with all these tattoos.
[00:02:03] I was like, she's pretty bad ass. I'm like, probably wearing a leather jacket. It was the summertime. So she had short sleeves and I saw all her tats and I was like this is why I love Liz because every time I meet one of her friends, I never know. Like I said that, right. I never know who I'm going to meet. I never, you know, and I just love the diverse group of friends that you have.
[00:02:30] And before I really start rambling on about how much I love you personally, I want to ask the most important question of all, and that is what donut are you and why? Ooh. All right. I, I, this is a very important question. So I would call myself a ginger lemon cake donut. Yeah. [00:03:00] With like a lavender honey frosting.
[00:03:06] Yes honey. Damn, I'm hungry. Not a classic glaze this time. But we sold out of those. This is, this is, tell me more, tell me more. Yeah, why, why, why? These are, all of these are a combination of all of my favorite things from really like a sensory kind of element. Like ginger, I love ginger. It's like spice. It feels just good for me in terms of just like good for my soul. Lemon I drink, I make a lemon water like every single day. I just like, I just love like the cleansing, I guess, of lemon. Lavender, I love, I love like just the, the scent and the calmness that it brings. Yeah. And I just love cake donuts.
[00:03:53] Thank you for breaking that down. I love a lot of those things on that list. Definitely lavender. [00:04:00] I'm a big lavender person and I'm just recently have been craving ginger all the time. Yeah, she really has.And no listeners, I'm not pregnant.
[00:04:11] You know people ask anytime you're craving something. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you guys will be one of the first to know. Right. Because Liz won't be able to hold it in. Yeah. I agree. I love lemon is like that. Like any lemon curd kind of thing. I love the flavor of lemon. It's such like a bright, happy, but also complex and a little bit sour flavor. So that, yeah, that makes sense.
[00:04:35] I get it. I get where you're going. So Jenn, can you tell our people a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do? Absolutely. Uh, so I am a mobile product manager for iHeartRadio and I care deeply about humanity and building a better future for [00:05:00] generations to come. And you grew up and now you're from, you've been in Nashville for a long time, right?
[00:05:06] Uh, so I originally grew up actually in a small city called Bowser City, which is right outside of Shreveport, Louisiana. I moved to Nashville right before high school, right before high school in, uh, 2000. And since then you have been all over the world and the country, you have moved and hopped around.
[00:05:31] And one of the things that you and I have had many, many, many, conversations about is about how where we're from and how we're raised and who were raised by plays into our identity. Will you talk a little bit about your trips around the world and then about your trip to Korea and how that has influenced your philosophy of identity?
[00:05:52] Absolutely. So I was born in South Korea and I was adopted at six [00:06:00] weeks by a white family and raised in Louisiana, as I mentioned, uh, until I was about 14. So I have two older brothers. Uh, they're my, they're my adopted brothers. They're older than me and you know growing up in Louisiana, there's not a lot of diversity as you can imagine.
[00:06:21] Um, and so that was a big part of how I made sense of the world. Right? And in terms of developing my own identity, I didn't necessarily have, I would say like a reflection. Right? Of, of these features, of these eyes, of this nose, of these things that I think a lot of people have that are not adopted or are transracially adopted specifically.
[00:06:48] So in order to feel like I could like belong or develop some sense of belonging outside of what I looked like I often [00:07:00] felt like I needed to, uh, you know, I guess like you say, assimilate and be like everyone else. And so that really became a part and it's still something I have to continuously try to unlearn is like trying to assimilate, trying to be like everyone, trying to fit in every square inch of, of place of where I am.
[00:07:20] So that I would say that was probably the, you know, the most influential part of developing my sense of identity as, especially as an adolescent, as you can imagine. Did you ask questions when you were young to your family? I did. And you know, we had the talk, you know, when I was a kid, I can barely remember, like I probably don't, I was probably maybe like maybe six or something. I don't know.
[00:07:46] And in that, you know they tell, they told me, you know there's a beautiful story of the decision they made to adopt, what went into that decision, the story of, of all these [00:08:00] interesting, like crazy events that happened that led them to where I came to them finally in Louisiana.
[00:08:05] And I was told that story and I love that story, but what's missing and what had been missing for me for a very long time is like what is the beginning of that story for me. Right? And that's not to negate or take away from that beautiful story that exists with my family. But the reality is, and I think this is something that is not really widely understood or known about adoption or just, or transracial adoption, like whatever parts of adoption that exists today is just like there is a Genesis and a story for that child that happens.
[00:08:46] There are circumstances. There are different macro factors that create these circumstances for these children as a result of their need to be adopted. Yeah. I, I feel like I [00:09:00] rambled along. No, the whole point of this podcast is for you to talk so there's no such thing as rambling. Um, no. So you, you like really dug in, in the last few years on what it means to be an adoptee, what it means to be Korean American, and then you actually went to Korea. Right? And had a year, not quite a year, right?
[00:09:20] Almost, not quite, yeah. It was about eight months. Yeah. Will you tell us about that experience? Absolutely. Thank you so much for asking. Uh, you know, I, it's, it's, it's crazy to think. Right? Like my whole life, I never really questioned if there were other people like me. Like I just thought for whatever reason that I had this individual experience of being adopted by a white family and raised in the South.
[00:09:48] And even though I met other Asian people along the way, be it very small since I grew up in the South, it never really occurred to me that there would be other Korean adoptees like me and that they would have the [00:10:00] same questions and the same experiences and that's just something that honestly has never crossed my mind until I moved to San Francisco in my late twenties.
[00:10:08] And I discovered this nonprofit specifically for Korean adoptees that educated other Korean adoptees and their families just about how, you know, how to like help Korean adoptees, like understand the history and, and their identity and, and just connect honestly with other Korean adoptees because they think that's what was missing for me most growing up was this ability to really connect with people that could share a similar experience, could share a similar feeling.
[00:10:42] And that was really isolating. And so because I grew up that way, not only with that feeling of isolation, but also this disconnected feeling of who my Korean identity is and what that looks like. And also not having [00:11:00] this source I would say of, of pride in that. Right? Like I always felt ashamed to be Korean.
[00:11:06] I always like hated to be Korean because it wasn't what I saw in the community. It wasn't what I saw in the media. So I had to like really kind of like unpack that and as an adult, which was really, really hard to because those kinds of feelings, that kind of shame, that kind of anger, if you will, is something that you have to bury constantly or else it's really hard, you know, otherwise it's hard sometimes just to get through the day.
[00:11:36] And I made the decision to move to Korea because I felt like I still had a lot of that inside me that needed to be explored further and reframed and to something more positive and something that I could learn more about myself, but also hopefully maybe teach others to take that like darkness, take that like hard, [00:12:00] take those hard feelings and turn them into something that can be more powerful and, and, and good if that makes sense.
[00:12:07] So that was really, I would say the motivating factor for going into Korea. Not only to just explore my roots and culture as often people like to say, but it was truly, I think, a way to kind of reclaim my identity as a Korean, um, and what that actually means. And along the way I actually learned what my identity is as an adopted person and what my identity is as an American.
[00:12:38] And so it's like, it was really an eyeopening experience to think about identity and all of the factors that actually go into that. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. So, and you correct me if I'm wrong. So it's safe to say that you didn't have these conversations with your parents growing up? Exactly.
[00:12:57] So can you tell me what it was like [00:13:00] growing up with white parents? Absolutely. Um, you know, we never talked about race. Um, I was always told I'm Korean, you're born in Korea. Right? But that is the extent of which, uh, those conversations took place. I experienced racism growing up and my parents did the best they could to, to comfort me and try to help me make sense of that experience but I, you know, I, I think it's very, it was difficult for them to a, to probably see it happening to their child. Right? It's like, it's, I think that is probably painful in and of itself, but then also, probably, and this is where I see as a failure on the system of international adoption, right, is they didn't have the tools, resources, knowledge prepared to comfort their child.
[00:13:58] Right? And so I have, [00:14:00] there's a lot of multifaceted aspects of the situation because I, you know, they're my family, I love them wholeheartedly. And they have given me nothing but love and compassion and I'm so grateful but because my family is white I think that it is beyond something that they've internally dealt with themselves because they're not Asian.
[00:14:27] Right? Because they're not Korean. And for them to know I think exactly how to help me with that situation hasn't, I don't think it's been, it definitely has not been easy. We've talked about it more since I've been an adult and trying to help them understand that. You know my parents, they get very upset whenever I've, I've told them about my experiences with racism as they would, they're my parents and they don't want their child to go through that but I see this reaction as in or their reaction as in, they can't really comprehend why people [00:15:00] act this way and like, they don't see color. Right?
[00:15:03] That's like often what I hear, which is, which is the problem. And I told them, I told him, I tell them this all the time. Like you, it's, you can't be colorblind because your daughter is here. Your daughter is not white. And even though yes, you and your own experience and love for me as your daughter may not look at me as different, others and the world do. And you can't take your individual experience, your individual reality and generalize it to the fact to where you ignore it, if that makes sense.
[00:15:44] Yeah. And that's a lot of why we talk about there's no such thing as not racist. You are either racist or you are anti-racist. You are either working to break down the system or you're participating in it. And love and compassion isn't [00:16:00] enough to make you anti-racist.
[00:16:03] It's like a very active understanding of the world and how it actually operates. Absolutely. I have a lot of thoughts going through my mind. I don't know if you watch "This Is Us" but it's a story about a black man who was raised by a white family and he's really going through and like pulling back some stuff and really digging in to, you know, his shadow work.
[00:16:26] And one of the things that they talked about on the show was when he was young, he would make up a family in his head. A black family in his head that he always wished would come get him. And that made me feel like, you know, but he also said a part of him wouldn't allow himself to go further into those dreams or thoughts because of the love and compassion that he did have for his white family.
[00:16:55] So my question to you is, did you have that? Did you experience [00:17:00] where you had like a made up family that you would like retreat off to in your mind? Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, I would, you know, I think I've always had this idea of another family, you know, and I, it didn't really I think solidified for me as much as when I went to Korea the first time. For the first time, actually a few years ago, I went back to Korea. Obviously I was born there. Um, and I learned that I had four biological sisters which I never had known before. This was something new that I learned looking at my Korean adoption file which is often different than what you get in your American file because of translations and things like that don't make it quite easy.
[00:17:54] So yeah. You know, growing up I don't think I had this, I don't know, I don't think I had a strong [00:18:00] sense of what that other family would look like if that makes sense but I did always have this yearning of seeing someone that looks like me and knowing like whose nose I have, or like who who's like, what are these like little mannerisms that I have and where did those come from?
[00:18:17] And that's like purely a biological aspect, right? Like of course there are parts of me that are environmentally influenced as part of like where I grew up, who my family is, things like that, but I think that there's a deeply biological and psychological need to see in some kind of reflection.. And that's, uh, I think that's like what I really yearned for was maybe not necessarily this other family but this like reflection of who am I. Who looks like me and who it, because I think also in that you have this sense of belonging and trust, if that makes sense.
[00:18:52] Like not that I don't belong and trust with my own family, but when you, again, like see someone physically who looks like you, I think [00:19:00] there is a different kind of connection. Absolutely. Okay. This is, uh, I'm gonna put a little like caution right here and you can answer this if you want, but I've gained a lot of interest I think since the recent, you know, episodes of This Is Us and knowing your story and having other friends.
[00:19:25] So when I think of trans racial adoptions and white families adopting in Korean babies and black babies, I can't help but to think there's a sense of saviorism. Oh yeah, for sure. Right. Do you mind speaking on that? Like do you have thoughts around that? And again, if you, if that's too, if, if that's too much, then when we don't have to answer. No, I'm glad you brought this up because I think this is actually, plays a big role in the narrative [00:20:00] around transracial adoption, international adoption.
[00:20:04] That again, I think creates this kind of singular view focused on the story around the adoptive family and the child but there is an absence of what happens before that and what are the other factors around that? You know, and, and in that I can share a little bit more specifically about like the history of Korean adoption and where I also felt that yeah, where I feel that, um, you know, white saviorism and, and other factors as well, play into adoption specific to Korea.
[00:20:41] There's so many layers. Okay. So first of all, there's like this humanitarian aspect that happened around the 1950s because of what happened in the Korean war. This was also in the midst of like a post-World war II baby boom, for example. So it was like, there was like this huge need for people to have children in the [00:21:00] West. It was such an interesting mix of factors that played into the Genesis, I would say, of Korean adoptions. So, um, after the Korean war there were a lot of mixed babies because you had Korean women with military men who had these children and these men were shipped back.
[00:21:18] And then these women were left without men to help take care of them. And in Korean society, and at the time there was no existing like social welfare infrastructure to take care of that. Um, so in addressing the need of those orphaned and abandoned children as a result of the war and so a lot of these efforts were pushed forward by humanitarian organizations, primarily Christian.
[00:21:47] So you can start to see the kind of like political, economic factors at play here, right, that brought about adoption. So because suddenly there was this bridge [00:22:00] of lack of welfare system in Korea, and this could be supplemented with these different humanitarian organizations, uh, in the West, it created the conditions of where Korea didn't need to set up additional infrastructure to support that. They could start to rely on, uh, these different humanitarian organizations for resources and funding to do that.
[00:22:23] So in 1953, I think, there was a married couple, um, Harry and Bertha Holt, um, out of Oregon. So they decided to adopt a, I believe, it was eight different or eight mixed race babies from Korea. And also too, you have to think about this. So Korea at the time, this was, uh, they had previously been occupied by Japan and Korea at the time wanted a, like, they like, mixed babies was something that they didn't want. They wanted a mono racial country. So this was also what they saw as kind of like a way [00:23:00] to, to empower that strategy as well.
[00:23:02] So there's, there's just a lot of, kind of like dark pieces, yeah, to be quite honest. And so, because that, and like, because of that nationalism and building a monoracial society, also there's cultural factors in Korean culture like Confucianism and there's the importance of this patrolineal line, like carrying it through the father.
[00:23:22] That also like reinforced international adoption as a solution for dealing with this issue of mixed race children. Right? So, uh, this couple that I mentioned, so they went on to found the whole adoption agency, which is actually the adoption agency that I was adopted through. This created and raised the visibility and facilitation of adopted children, which also brought in money to South Korea.
[00:23:46] And at the time, too, as the US was focused on trying to ensure that communism didn't come in to the US, like you could see there's like so many factors at play. This again [00:24:00] served as a, as a means to kind of like protect these different strategies going on from a, from a geopolitical standpoint as well. But back to your questions about white saviorism, I think where that comes into play is this humanitarian effort to save these children.
[00:24:16] Right? And also I think at the time, America wanted to be a part of that humanitarian effort. And in that, even though yes, it may come from like a good hearted altruistic place, you're still promoting this like narrative of saving orphans, saving children, without looking at all of these different economic, societal, historical political factors that are creating these orphans and creating this need for these children to be adopted.
[00:24:58] And, [00:25:00] and also a part of that. It's also continuing to make that system exist. Right, right? Like you're just perpetuating the cycle by doing that. And, um, yeah. That's like the, the critical argument about impact over intent and I feel like you live in this space with these, these two things. You love your family, obviously, and it has done harm.
[00:25:32] And we've talked a lot about like, can you, okay, hold on. I want to figure out how to phrase this because when we, remember that thing that you shared with me, that was like, it's hard to understand how to deal with your trauma when the attackers look like your parents, do you remember that?
[00:25:49] Yeah, I can't quite remember the exact words, but it was, you know, it was when, uh, the shooting happened recently, the six Asian women. Um, [00:26:00] and I remember reading, it was a post I read on an Instagram actually from this other adoptee that was saying, you know, it, it's hard to rationalize violence when the perpetrator looks like your own family.
[00:26:17] And that really stuck with me. And to be quite honest, I, um, you know, again, I think it's, it's, it's difficult to think about where and when race plays a role in, in your life and how you make sense of the world and your perspective on certain situations. And it's been difficult to talk to my white family about the violence that is happening against Black Americans, against Asian Americans, because I think it's something that they have not truly felt to be quite honest because it is...
[00:27:00] [00:27:00] When I read the news about those six Asian women and it was honestly for the first time that I felt something different in my bones that I don't know if I would have felt if I never went to Korea and felt what it was like to exist as a different race, if that makes sense. And it stuck. It, it broke me in a way that I had never felt before and it gave me a different sense of empathy for Black Americans in this country to be quite honest. And I, I will never forget that feeling. And I don't think a lot of people who are not Black or Asian or other marginalized group for, to be quite honest, perhaps have been or felt that feeling, if that makes sense.
[00:27:57] And I can't, it's not an [00:28:00] intellectual thing. It's not a, it's truly not like, you know, I think it's so easy sometimes to cop out on, on someone's ability to understand or comprehend or things like that. But it truly, this like feeling that I can't really describe. I can only just try to, but it is not only a feeling right?
[00:28:21] You have everybody's shoving it in your face. You have to talk about it. You have to be strong. You know, we don't really have time to be weak in it all. Yeah. You know, this was a really hard week and I haven't. I've had to work. I've had to get up every day, put my game face on because I don't have that privilege, you know, to sit back and kick my feet up.
[00:28:48] So it's more than that feeling in the bones. It is something that you gotta, it's constantly like, yeah there's tragic incidents that replay in your mind but [00:29:00] then the fact that I have no space to just be free of this. None.
[00:29:12] Yeah. So when it happened, when the incident in Atlanta happened, I was kind of lost for words, in the sense of, of course I had empathy for you, but it was hard because like, you know, I have a really great relationship with you and I have some great relationships with other Asian Americans, but when I take a step back and I think about Korean Americans as a whole, and I'm speaking on also some of my friend's behalf during that time, it was really hard for some of them to support the Asian Americans [00:30:00] because as Black people and you can look at movies, you can, you know, the Asian man always thought we were stealing or we were, you know, we weren't good enough.
[00:30:09] You know I had some deep conversations with some of my friends. Obviously I'm a community activist and I'm fighting on behalf of everyone and you know, it really, like I came back and I told Liz, like, I didn't even think about it like this, you know?
[00:30:25] And I had a conversation with my husband. And I guess the question that I have for you is like, obviously you are dealing with and feeling so many different things, but I think it's also important to understand that all of that comes from white supremacy culture and the delusion of white supremacy. Like that, that is born of the hierarchy, the false hierarchy that is established by white supremacy culture.
[00:30:54] Right. That is true. That is so true. I guess what I was saying [00:31:00] is like, I'm sure that you heard that, right? That there was some black Americans that are just like, why should we support the Asian Americans when well. The media also put more weight on the Black community supporting the Asian community than the white community when they should have been doing the work in the first place.
[00:31:17] What was your feelings around that? I guess that's what I'm getting too. Did you have feelings? Did you even have time to process that? Because like, for me, honestly, I did in the midst of the conversation, but I was trying to be strong for you in the community.
[00:31:32] Right? And like, get this word out there. So did you have that time to kind of think about that? I, I, I did. I honestly like don't, I mean although I appreciate, and, and, and so grateful for your support and support by any Black American, I did not expect like, I don't expect that. Right? I do expect [00:32:00] it from my white family.
[00:32:02] And to be quite honest it's been really hard as a Korean adoptee with a white family to have these conversations. And I've spoken to a lot of Korean adoptees. I did actually that weekend after that incident happened and a lot of Korean adoptees white families weren't there for them and they didn't ask how they were feeling. They didn't ask how they were affected.
[00:32:35] And that is, that is a very, again, isolating and difficult place to be as an Asian American who not only has an Asian American community really, you know, unless you grew up in an area where you perhaps have Asian-American friends or you were exposed to Asian American community.
[00:32:57] Like, there's an absence of that already as an, [00:33:00] as a Korean adoptee, but then it's almost as if you can't connect with the Asian Americans that are hurting because there's an absence of understanding that experience too, because there's a difference, right? Like my parents didn't immigrate here from, from Korea and I'm like a second generation, third generation.
[00:33:18] So there is like that isolation of itself and then there's the isolation of like my family is white and they don't really know what or how to say to things to comfort me in the way that perhaps they would if they were Asian-American. And that is hurtful to them which I understand because they don't know how to, they don't know how to separate that from them as a parent.
[00:33:40] Right? And I, again, put that on the system of international adoption not helping parents truly understand how to have these conversations when your child is a different race, how to support them when the world treats them differently and how to give them the language to even comprehend or make sense of [00:34:00] these kinds of things to where they feel like safe.
[00:34:04] You know, it hasn't been until recently I've done a lot more research in terms of looking at things like identity and what that means and I think that there is this intersection of race and culture and let's say nation or country to which you identify. And I feel like adoptees, Korean adoptees, again I'm speaking on behalf of Korean adoptees, specifically myself, live within what's been referred to as this other adoptee I read about who published an article on the third space.
[00:34:37] And it is this identity that exists within these spaces. Like you have, you know, within race, within country, within culture, and you don't clearly fall into any of these, you just exist between them. And that's kind of how it feels. And it's both empowering and isolating at the same time. [00:35:00] Hmm. I have a question for you.
[00:35:04] Um, one of the callings in my life in and it came to me when I was 20 that, I mean God told me it was like, you're going to adopt a child one day. I mean this was before I was married, anything like that. And, um, it's still the mission, but I want to know, like, obviously my adoption may look a little different because I do plan on adopting a Black baby, so you know the transracial part won't be there, but what are some things that you wish people knew about the history and the context of adoption before considering adopting?
[00:35:47] You know, I think it's important to reframe the narrative of adoption for the child and, and helping them understand [00:36:00] how to kind of build their own story, if that makes sense, because all adoptees really honestly kind of have an, and I take this, inspired by this writer Jeanette Winterson, and then in her observation about adoption in that storytelling is a big part of who we are because we have to kind of like make sense of our own story and who we are by, you know, recreating.
[00:36:31] Not the word, fantasy isn't the right word, but you're going to have to kind of, you kind of have to like recreate the, the beginning before you were adopted for yourself in a way that is healthy for you and empowering for you. Um, because there's, uh, there's a lot of reasons why someone becomes in a situation where they need to be adopted.
[00:36:56] Um, for the reasons I mentioned specifically in terms of like the history of [00:37:00] Korea, but also just helping them make sense of their own history and their own identity and being able to have those kinds of conversations, um, I think are extremely important for any adopted person because there is always your family, of course, but then there's always this other, right, this other existence that you may not even have the words for or know exactly where that fits into your life or into your like, existence, if that makes sense?
[00:37:34] But it's, I think it's important to help people make sense of that. Um, I'm hopeful for that, um, that, that is able to happen. I feel like our generation is very transparent and open and where we are trying to like work in the trauma and like discover the shit that happened.
[00:37:58] Uh, I have [00:38:00] great confidence in saying that this next generation that, you know, has plans to adopt that it may look just like that because I know for me, I want to be as open and honest with my child. I want them, you know, I want to be able to provide as much information to them as possible. And like you said, help them create the story and not the story that I wrote for them.
[00:38:25] Well Jenn, um, like all of our guests, we could talk to you all day and I have more things that I want to talk about. So we'll just have you back, but I want to ask one last question. And the question is, what do you wish you could tell your younger self?
[00:38:45] I wish I could tell my younger self to take the time to really get to know and under, understand yourself on a, on a deeper [00:39:00] level and really love yourself on a deeper level than what's reflected to you externally in the world. You know, I wish that more young people were given the opportunity and the ability to explore that.
[00:39:20] Damn Jenn. I know, I was about to say mic drop. That was a hell of a way to sign off. Yeah. Mic drop everybody and I'm crying now. Um, Jenn, we thank you very much for sitting down and speaking with us. I mean obviously you know just by being friends with us, no conversation is ever easy. Just so y'all know, this is the stuff we talk about when we have drinks together too.
[00:39:45] Like yeah. Like nothing has changed. So I think that's it Liz. Wait, wait. It's not quite all. Okay. Um, Jenn, obviously you have like a very powerful story [00:40:00] and you are going to be starting a blog and you're featured on a documentary. Where can people find more information about you and get connected to your story in a deeper way?
[00:40:09] Yeah. Thank you. Uh, so I'm going to relaunch my blog, actually, Loveletterstokorea.com. Uh, so that is, actually, was originally created when I moved to Korea and I wanted to document my journey, understanding my, you know, if you want to, if you want to peek into the world of what it's like to be a Korean adoptee, going back to South Korea not knowing the language alone, like it's, uh, it's pretty entertaining, I'd say.
[00:40:32] Uh, but I'm, I'm relaunching it really focused on these kinds of conversations around, uh, adoption, around transracial adoption, um, and identity formation because I think it's really important for people to understand and be aware of. Great. And what is the name of the documentary and where can we find it?
[00:40:51] Oh, sorry. It's not a documentary. It's uh, I have, uh, no, no, no. Weren't you on a documentary? You were featured on a documentary? No, I was, I was [00:41:00] featured on, not a documentary. It was an interview that I did with a Korean news station about my journey. So I, that is, uh, also I'll put a post to my blog. You can find that as well.
[00:41:10] Great. Alright Ashley, now that's it. And I guess I saw y'all. She's going to let me wrap it up. Do it how you normally do it just for my sake. Okay. Alright. I guess that's it and that's all. You better leave that part in there. I liked that. I liked that little messiness. Grace, you're fired again. I'm just kidding.
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