Ep007 - We Need Therapy - Eric Capehart (Eric The Counselor)

Thanks for listening to Wellness, Community, Magic, a podcast with a pro-donut, anti-racist, Glenda-the-good-witch agenda. In this episode, Ashley Brooke James and Elizabeth Moore join Eric The Counselor, AKA Eric Capehart (enneagram 8) to discuss some of the obstacles folks face while exploring counseling options.

Thanks for listening to Wellness, Community, Magic, a podcast with a pro-donut, anti-racist, Glenda-the-good-witch agenda. In this episode, Ashley Brooke James and Elizabeth Moore join Eric The Counselor, AKA Eric Capehart (enneagram 8) to discuss some of the obstacles folks face while exploring counseling options. They talk about the new year, cultural competency, and options for therapy when your finances are tight. 

If you want to try therapy but feel like it isn't possible, this episode is for you. 

Tune in next week for a deeper dive into our beloved Enneagram! Maybe you should go take the Enneagram test to prepare...

Resources and Links: 

The Podcast 

TRILUNA

The Box Series

Take the Enneagram Test

Black Men & Mental Health Workshop

Eric The Counselor

The Wives Episode

Bloom: CBT App

TN Mental Health Co-Op

Hey Nashville, Go Get a Caramel Donut

Full Transcript:

[00:00:00] There's this really strong thing in counseling about being culturally competent, knowing about the person that's sitting across from you. And so my clients are black males. If I have a black male sitting across from me, I know what he's bringing to the table. Culturally, everybody doesn't fit in the same category.

[00:00:21] But it's my responsibility to check in with that man. That was the powerful voice of Eric Capehart, otherwise known as Eric the Counselor. Eric is a practicing mental health counselor in Nashville, Tennessee, specializing in men's issues and working with black men. He is also the founder and managing partner at Experience Mental Health Inc., a company focusing on helping black Americans improve mental health. Experience Mental Health also produces a podcast by the same name, posted by Eric and Dez Perry. Today, we're talking about the new year, cultural competency and finding therapy on a budget. Hi everyone. We're your hosts, Ashley Brooke [00:01:00] James and Elizabeth Moore, co-founders of TRILUNA.  And this is the Wellness Community Magic podcast, a podcast with a pro donut, anti-racist, Glenda- the- good- witch agenda. We're here to take on diet culture by making self-care realistic, sustainable, and inclusive. So settle in, get cozy and join us on our journey to build community and redefine wellness.

[00:01:23] Let's get started.

[00:01:28] If you were any donut, what donut would you be? I feel it, you living it out, pro donut. I would be a caramel, mostly because that's my favorite flavor, but it's like, it's like, Kind of unexpected when you're looking for a donut like, Oh, I want a caramel glazed donut, but most people want like a sprinkles or chocolate or strawberry filled, creme filled.

[00:01:54] I'm kind of like a, not standing out too much, but when you hit into it, I need [00:02:00] another one at all this, you know? And so, you know, I liked caramel. That's a great answer. That's, I think, caramel is my boyfriend's favorite flavor of all time. I like caramel too. And just a little side note, the loading dock, if you've ever been there, it's in the Wedgewood Houston area.

[00:02:15] It's an amazing black owned coffee shop that has amazing Carmel glaze donuts, Apple fritters. I mean, they have the best. Like, yeah. I guess more people like caramel donuts than I thought. Absolutely. So Eric, to open up, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do and then we'll jump right in. Yeah. I like to tell people first and foremost that I am a native Nashvillian.

[00:02:46] I am actually from the city of Nashville. You know, most people, you know, they're transient or they moved here from some other place, but I'm like the original in the original. I am Eric Capehart. I am a professional counselor, also practicing here in this [00:03:00] area. Um, I focused on men's issues mostly. Uh, I know your audience is mostly women and that's okay because women are the ones who lead men to counseling. 

[00:03:11] You know, if you have a man in your life, that's important to, your dad, your brother, your boyfriend, or whoever you tell them about, Oh, I heard about this counselor. He, I think he'd be great for you. Most of my, I don't want to say most, but many of my male clients have come to me by way of a woman in their life then.

[00:03:27] So that's, that's why I'm really glad to be a part of the show. And so, uh, I am a counselor. Uh, I spent 11 years in nonprofit before I became a professional counselor. I was a founder and CEO of a mentoring organization called All The Kings Men. It was here in Nashville. We ran it for 11 years. We had group mentoring programs in school.

[00:03:47] We had them in community centers and we also had this program that I thought was unique at the time which is called team mentors where we would partner with a youth football organization and we put a mentor on every one [00:04:00] of the teams. And so that was kind of a new and unique way for us to continue our mission to mentor black boys.

[00:04:05] And we, it was, it was an organization for black boys and our mission was to reduce the likelihood that they would ever come into contact with juvenile court. And so we decided let's go where they are. They're in school, they're in community centers and they're playing on sports teams. And so that's, uh, I did that for 11 years and I realized along the way that while mentoring is definitely an important part of a youth development, I was noticing that there were bigger issues that I wasn't necessarily able to diagnose per se.

[00:04:35] And it really made me realize it what my boys needed was the mentorship. But they also needed some help with some of the psychological and emotional challenges that they were having. And a mentor is just generally not able to, to handle that unless they are a trained professional. And so I took those experiences as a mentor, 11 years working with families, uh, and I decided to become a counselor. 

[00:04:57] And so, uh, I've been counseling since I [00:05:00] became a counselor at 2014, been practicing, um, at my own practice since 2017. And I started another organization with my business partners, a business called Experience Mental Health. Our whole purpose is to help black Americans improve their mental health.

[00:05:14] And we believe in the essence of teaching by experience. We bring people on the show. We host events where we give individuals an opportunity to share their journey. Some of the things that they've learned, um, some of the things that they think would be helpful to another person, if they were dealing with a similar type of situation.

[00:05:34] Um, another thing that we're doing really that I'm excited about it at my company, EMH, is that we are getting into, uh, we want to take advantage of technology, mental health technology, more specifically. And so we are looking at a few different brain training programs. Um, SaaS is one of them. You may have heard of a place called Inceptions, I believe it's out of Grand Rapids, Michigan, and their whole concept is they are a, a mental health gym. [00:06:00] It's just like you go to the gym, the workout stations, well they have all these different technologies you can take advantage of by coming to their gym. And I think that's a very, uh, cutting edge technology and a business model. And so what we're trying to do is we really want to mimic what they've done and begin to offer those types of services here.

[00:06:19] So in a nutshell, I'm a counselor, I'm a helper. Uh, I'm just a person who's all about action. You know, I don't really sit around and think about things very long. I do think about things, I'm very deliberate in the things that I do. Um, but once I get into it, I'm usually in it for the long haul. So that's, that's who I am.

[00:06:36] That is a very impressive resume. Very much so, very much so. Can you, a big question is, is there a difference between a counselor and a therapist? Not really. It's just one of those terms that's used interchangeably, used anonymously. It is important. If you say you're a therapist it's important to indicate what type of therapist.

[00:06:57] I mean, you could be a mental health therapist. You [00:07:00] could be a, I don't know, is there, is there a thing as a yoga therapist? There is yoga therapy. There is actually a yoga therapy certification. Jimmy is actually going through yoga therapy. We obviously need to learn a little bit more about that. There's certain types of therapists.

[00:07:17] Right. But for me, I am a mental health therapist. And so I stick with the term counselor because it's a little less ambiguous even still, it can still be ambiguous, like, okay, what kind of counselor are you? You know, and so I just called myself a counselor, but generally speaking, there's really no difference between a counselor and a therapist.

[00:07:36] But if you want to know exactly what that person is doing, you just have to dig a little bit deeper and find out what kind of therapist. Right. And I think that's why we hesitate with that, uh, yoga therapy too, because in our trainings, we are told that yoga is not a form of therapy, or we should not say that it heals things.

[00:07:56] So we use yoga more as a resource and so when you were [00:08:00] explaining that I was like, well that's why we hesitated like that while we should know, because in the particular training that we did, they talk about that. I want to know what does it mean to be a mental health counselor? Uh, what does it mean? It means that you are a person who is highly important in somebody else's life.

[00:08:20] It's almost like being a pastor. You know, I hear my clients that come to me week after week. And they say, well, I was talking to my wife or my partner about what you said, right. And it's, it's an incredible responsibility to be somebody's counselor. For me, I take it, I mean, it's like, even when I was a mentor, like I had to live my life in a way that others could look to me and say, yeah, that's a good person.

[00:08:45] That's it. That's who I want my son to be around. It makes you more aware of the way you, you know, you don't want to live in a box, but when you accept the responsibility that you are the primary person in a person's life, to help them deal with certain things, you want to [00:09:00] just make sure that your life is a reflection of someone that can actually help.

[00:09:04] But you know, being a, being a mental health counselor, it's a great responsibility. And I'm really glad you asked that question because it is something that I reflect on often. And I'll just say that it's, uh, it's, it's really like a great responsibility and also a privilege to be, uh, somebody's mental health counselor.

[00:09:21] Yeah, I can relate to that. Just in that I used to be a health coach and I actually stopped doing individual health coaching because I felt like an under-qualified therapist. You know, it's like, it's very hard to have a conversation about food that isn't about more than food. And I realized very quickly that like, I'm trying to help people with health and it's so much deeper.

[00:09:44] And I was like, I need you to go speak to a therapist, to someone who is actually qualified to help you work through these issues, because that is not me. And I think that's something important to recognize when you go into different healing modalities. I'm doing air quotes because I think that is a term that [00:10:00] requires more qualification.

[00:10:01] Like how do you distinguish between someone who is like qualified to help you with an issue and someone who just like, could maybe give you some advice? So, I mean, just generally speaking, the easy thing is what are their credentials? Have they been to school? You know, in my field, especially in my area of focus, working with black men and boys, um, you generally find that barbers are like the, the feeling like if I need to talk to somebody or if I need to just share, I'm going to go talk to a Barber.

[00:10:30] Some Barbers think that that qualifies them, but that's not necessarily true because barbers, I hadn't clearly been to Barber.

[00:10:41] You know, generally tell people what they would do. This is one thing you should do, or this is what I would do if I were you. And that's not what therapy is about. It's not telling somebody what they need to do based on who you are. It's not, it's helping somebody come to their own conclusions. It's helping somebody decide for [00:11:00] themselves what they need to do.

[00:11:01] Not something that you think you need to do. So the first thing is to figure out what qualifies,  like you're asking what qualifies a person or what makes them a therapist? Well, look at their credentials. Counseling is more than just sitting and listening to other people tell me their problems. It may seem like I'm just sitting there just listening.

[00:11:19] And I could be, you might think, well, is he listening? But I'm processing thinking of multiple things. I'm thinking of a technique. I'm thinking of a modality. I'm listening, actively listening for the most part, like really listening and in tune with what my client is saying. And at the same time, I'm thinking of what is a skill that they need to learn to mitigate this problem. 

[00:11:42] And so that's the thing about counseling. You can always have somebody that you need to talk to. And I encourage all people to have a list of go-to people to talk to when life gets difficult and also have a professional, someone that can help you process things, maybe on a deeper level or in a way [00:12:00] that a friend is just not capable of helping you with.

[00:12:03] Mm. I love the idea of therapy as like a way to better know yourself and understand how to make decisions for yourself. I agree. That's what I think about counseling because, uh, I've seen several counselors and the, the best ones are the ones that really believe in this principle that all therapists should have is a belief in autonomy.

[00:12:24] Like if you are a high functioning person, you're not dealing with psychosis and, you know, major mental health issues, you're more than likely able to decide for yourself. And so I really honor that autonomous idea when I'm in therapy. Eric, we just love talking to you and hearing you talk. You know, we worked together earlier this summer.

[00:12:45] We did a black man and mental health workshop together. We've had you, uh, involved in our diversity and inclusion. We've talked a lot about what's going on this year as far as social justice [00:13:00] issues, being black in America, being a black man in America. I mean, living as a person and 2020 and our overall mental health.

[00:13:11] And as we gear up for the new year, I want, you know, people just think like it's going to be January and everything is going to be okay. And life is going to go back to normal, but it's not. And I think that there needs to be conversations that people are having with themselves about the expectations. I guess my question is what advice would you put out there for people who are like really having these high expectations that things are just going to go away. And all my mental health problems are gone and 2021 is going to fix it. Well, I mean, that's one of those questions, um, if a person is thinking that things are just going to Waalaa January the first, I don't think that's a, a reasonable expectation.

[00:13:54] I mean, I would ask, like, help me understand what is going to happen at midnight [00:14:00] on December 31st that's going to change everything in the next moment. And I just really, I would just turn it into an introspective conversation to see what's leading this person to think this, and then maybe I can help them identify some more realistic expectations because I mean, this is just flat out, it's just not going to happen. 

[00:14:19] And it kind of reminds me of this question, miracle question we asked in counseling, if you were to go to sleep tonight and the miracle took place overnight, how would you know the miracle took place? In other words, what would be different the next day? It's kind of one of those types of questions, but that question is too for us to get insight into that person's train of thought. What's leading them to think that this is going to happen. And it also gives us insight into what they hope would happen. And so if a person is telling me that, I hope that in 2021 everything is just going to be better, then I would help them identify areas in their life that they actually want to be better and then help them put together a game plan to, to achieve that.

[00:14:59] But I would [00:15:00] also really, really stress the reasonable expectation. I love the idea of setting a goal plan. I think when we go into the new year, we always have these intentions, right? We set intentions. On our last podcast we talked about manifesting. But to us, manifesting is like really intentionally creating a plan for the kind of life you want to live.

[00:15:20] And I have never thought about therapy as a way to help me set that game plan and then execute on it. Oh, absolutely. That's a, that's like my go-to with my clients. You know, most people that I'm working with are feeling stuck. And I believe that if you are a person who's feeling stuck in life, it's probably because you don't have any goals or any plans.

[00:15:42] You're not visualizing yourself in the future. And so that's what I help people do. Let's put together a, a nimble plan. And what I mean by nimble is like, you know, it doesn't have to, you don't have to do every single thing exactly on the date and time and the exact way that you said you would do it.

[00:15:58] Let's be nimble in that [00:16:00] and expect failure to some degree. But that doesn't mean it's time to give up. And so I'm all about long-term planning with my clients and I love to see it. It's like a light bulb going off when we do the Enneagram or we do any type of personality assessment, or there's this thing called attachment theory that describes the way you interact in your adult relationships based on your caretakers when you were a child.

[00:16:24] And so all of these different things, it just helps paint a picture for my clients. A starting point, we do values, clarification, mission statements, all of those things. And then we start to move from that place. And so I really like long-term planning for life is definitely something that a counselor, a mental health counselor, can help you with.

[00:16:44] And I love that because you know, most of your clients are men, right? And for women, it's just like, we naturally, like Liz literally just gifted me with a beautiful intention goal setting journal for Christmas. And like, but those are [00:17:00] things that we naturally do, right? Like, we just sit down, we visualize, we plan it out.

[00:17:06] But for you to be intentional on having that a part of your therapy, as far as like men, because like I got my husband to do a vision board one time. He won't admit it, but he liked it, but like, it's just like, It was a hard, it was like, it was really hard to get him to be like, I need you to vision. Like with me, I need you to dream with me and make sure that we're in alignment with this.

[00:17:30] But I love that this is brought in a space for men, because like I said, for women, it's natural for us to, and like Liz said, yes, this is great because we love doing stuff. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I don't necessarily like doing vision boards, but when I do them, I understand... OKay, this helped me. I'm a visual.

[00:17:50] I'm a visionary, anyways. I just have been and just cutting out pictures and paper and posting them,  that's just not something appealing. [00:18:00] I have alcohol. Make an event out of it. That's the whiskey. That's different. But you're right. I think it's highly important to see yourself in the future. I remember when I was like 25 and I was dating this girl and she asked me, what is your future?

[00:18:18] I'm 25, right? I told her, I hadn't even really thought about being 30 years old yet. I hadn't, at that point, I had never even thought about it. Like, I won't say I'll just say generally speaking, most black men, we don't think about the future because of the social issues that we're dealing with and all these different things. It really makes us focus on the here and now, like today, you know, and maybe the end of this week.

[00:18:40] And it's a thing, it's a skill that you have to be taught to think about yourself in the future. And so again, you know, visualizing yourself in the future is, is critical. I tell my wife and my people that are close to me that my life today is like a picture of what I visualized back when I started counseling.

[00:18:57] Back when I made the decision to go back to [00:19:00] graduate school. I knew that it was, I knew this was a long game. I knew it would be six years before I would ever be in the position, uh, well, not necessarily. I thought it would be six years. It's, uh, it didn't take six years, but that was long-term planning. And so I look at my life today and I'm like, wow, this is not exactly right.

[00:19:18] I didn't know that I would marry the woman I married or I was living. I mean, but I knew I wanted certain things. I saw myself in the future. And once you see yourself in the future, the law of attraction is going to pull you towards that if you focus on what you want more so than focusing on what you don't want to happen.

[00:19:36] I have so many, my brain is going in so many different directions right now. You're talking to a counselor. That's what we do. Do you have female patients, clients, do we call them? What, what do you call it? I just, you know, wherever they're called.

[00:19:57] Clients. [00:20:00] Okay. Okay. Okay. It's one of those questions it's like proper, like whatever they want to be called. Yeah, I think that's the right answer. I do have women clients and they find it to be very, a, my whole career has been focused on helping men and my approach is like very straightforward. And they'll even ask me questions sometimes.

[00:20:21] Like, just tell me from a man's perspective, just give it to me for real like I'm dealing with a breakup and this is what's happening and I just want to know what's really going on here. And the thing is, I grew up in a house with all women. My mom had five kids. I'm her only son. Uh, my father wasn't in the picture so I literally grew up in the house with five women. 

[00:20:40] All my sisters have daughters, you know, and I'm just like a man trapped in a woman's world, but I have a special advantage, I think. I think being around women so much has given me an advantage, um, that other men may not have. Um, so yeah. 

[00:20:55] The short answer is yes, I do have a women clients. [00:21:00] I have a question. So you said that there was nothing that we could not ask. You made a comment when you were talking about growing up in a house full of women, that your father wasn't in the picture. Do you feel that played a big part in you mentoring young black men like in still today?

[00:21:18] Yeah. Oh, that's a question that is kind of, it's not hard to answer, but I'll answer in this way. My father wasn't there. My biological father wasn't there at all. I didn't meet him until I was, I think 21. Um, my mom did marry another man. He raised me as his son for several years, but then that ended as well.

[00:21:38] And so now I'm a fatherless boy. And I, there's things that come about when you're a fatherless child period. Especially when you're a fatherless black male living in America. And so when I became a mentor, I had no idea that that's what I was passionate about. I didn't, I was volunteering, uh, with my fraternity in [00:22:00] college, we were going to mentor some boys and that was the first time I had ever mentor.

[00:22:04] And there was this little kid. He may have been in kindergarten. And I just, I actually felt that I had something to give to him. I'm like, Oh, I actually have something to give to this kid. Like just me showing up and cutting out paper with him or coloring or just spending time with him in his environment meant a lot.

[00:22:22] Um, I will say this, that being a fatherless child and even being a fatherless adult man, there are still challenges that I have. Like I still call my mom and talk to her about, damn, I just really wish I could call my father and talk to him about certain things. Or share with him what's going on in my life and he's alive.

[00:22:42] It's not like he's not living, you know, um, he's not in this state, but just not having that relationship, to me, it kind of fragments, not necessarily fragments. I just have to leave that where it's set and deal with it when it comes about. But I don't know if it had anything to do with me [00:23:00] wanting to be a mentor, but I will tell you that it had everything to do with me wanting to be a father to my children.

[00:23:07] Like present in the house, living together, every day and I'm getting a major dose of that all day every day, right? And so I will say that being a fatherless child did really want me to be a father. It did. Well, I appreciate you answering that. And just based on social media and everything, I mean, we all can tell that you're very, very active in your children's life.

[00:23:33] Even if that's waking up on a Saturday morning, fixing everybody in the house breakfast except for your wife. I knew that was coming. Tiffany, that was for you. I got your back. You got to tell the whole story. Okay. She woke up and he made breakfast for everyone in the house except his wife, because she slept in and she posted about it and she was very angry and we were going in on Eric.

[00:24:00] [00:23:59] Like we were trolling him hard and then he ordered her breakfast and then the daughter asked for some and she was like, no, you already had your breakfast. It was, it made my whole Saturday morning. I was like watching the show. It was great. Thank you guys for sharing. So you have a podcast, Experience Mental Health.

[00:24:21] What has been your favorite episode and why? Oh my God. I mean, we, I don't know what... Oh, I'll tell you. My favorite episode, honestly, I don't know which one's the favorite, but I think this is one. This is going to be the, the right answer to this question. We just did a show with my co-host. He's married and we just did a show with our wives.

[00:24:41] It's actually coming out today. Oh, that's going to be good. Yeah, we'll link to it. Right. That's the best show that we've ever done. And it was really cool because my wife, she loves to talk and she loves to share. And when we met and we were talking about getting married. She always told me that she wanted her relationship to [00:25:00] be an example for others.

[00:25:01] Not that it's like perfect, not like, Oh, here's a perfect relationship, but it's just, here's one that's working. And she always had that in mind. And even today we're nine years into our marriage. She's still intentional about being an example for younger married couples or people who want to be married.

[00:25:19] And so that's a, that's why this show is going to be great. Very excited to hear it. Uh, okay. So we have obviously talked a lot about relationships on this episode in relation to mental health. And you answered on our survey. What, we asked what wellness was to you and said, you said "Wellness is being psychologically, emotionally, and socially healthy."

[00:25:40] And we really believe that your mental health and your physical health are affected by the community in which you are in and supported or not supported. Can you talk about why you said emotionally and socially healthy in addition to psychologically for your answer? I guess I'll say it's the most natural response for me as a counselor [00:26:00] because mental health or mental wellness comprises those three areas, psychological wellness, emotional wellness, and social wellbeing.

[00:26:10] And so like, that's like the natural answer for me when someone asks me about wellness. But the social part is very important. I think that's the part that is oftentimes either overlooked in counseling or just not addressed because the therapist may just be oblivious to it. Uh, there's this really strong thing in counseling about being culturally competent, knowing about the person that's sitting across from you.

[00:26:38] And so my clients are black males. If I have a black male sitting across from me, I know what he's bringing to the table. Culturally, everybody doesn't fit in the same category, but it's my responsibility to check in with that man. So I'll ask a question, like, what is it like being a black man in today's society?

[00:26:57] That is a question that's a whole counseling [00:27:00] session, just a response to that, right? And that's me being culturally competent. That's me connecting and caring about that person's social wellbeing because many of the social challenges turn into psychological and or emotional problems. And so that's why it's important to really have a strong focus on social aspect, especially when you're dealing with people who have been marginalized or pushed to the side in society.

[00:27:26] That's why that's important. I love that answer. And we talk about community so much. It's obviously like wellness community magic is like our, our brand platform, but could you talk a little bit about how your community can play a role in your mental health and how it can uplift you and you can use that to your advantage?

[00:27:43] We are noticing that in society, um, mental health is actually becoming cool. You know, I just have this thing in mind where people do what's, what's cool. People do what everybody else is doing, what everybody is talking about. Now that mental health is that thing, that's now like a signal to the community [00:28:00] that, "Hey, you can be a part of this conversation to."

[00:28:03] What's going on in your life? Let's start talking about it. Let's abolish all these stigmas about counseling that you have to be psychotic or you have to be, you know, severely ill or crazy. You know, I don't really like to use that term, but it's out there, to go see a counselor.

[00:28:20] And so the community can play a role in it by offering more things like what we're done today. We're a part of the community. This show is a part of the community. And what you're doing is adding this dialogue to the community. All the women, all of them are going to hear this and they are a part of their community.

[00:28:37] And then they can continue that conversation on with whomever else may be in the community or in a whole other community. And so I think the way that a community can get involved is just let's get, let's all chime in on this conversation. Let's all make counseling the cool thing to do so that we can, you know, treat each other better or at least just live the best life that you can imagine for yourself. For the [00:29:00] people in the community who obviously we have community circles that we're creating and creating conversations, but the people who really want to look into therapy and counseling but don't have the income to support that, what are some things that you would suggest or put out there for them to look into?

[00:29:19] Yeah. And I have to address it. The cost of services, it's high. I'm just going to be honest. I mean, my rates are a hundred dollars a session. I mean, I know it's out of reach for a lot of people.

[00:29:29] However, at the same time most therapists have a sliding scale. Or you can go to, um, most cities have, what's called a mental health co-op where, if you are a resident of a particular county, you can receive pro bono counseling services. And so anytime a person comes to me and I don't accept insurance either.

[00:29:48] And so that's a, that's another thing. So if a person comes to me and they say they can't pay the rate, I just flat out ask them what can they pay? And most times, me, this is only me, I'll, I will [00:30:00] accept it. I have a person paying me $20 a session. It doesn't mean that's an $80 discount. Right. And that's, that's a major, but I don't like to turn people away for their inability to pay.

[00:30:10] And a lot of therapists have that, that same mentality, or we will try to direct you to like what I just told you, the mental health co-op, which we have one here in Nashville. And I refer people there all the time. There are different resources that can give you either pro bono services or extremely reduced costs, but you have to initiate the search.

[00:30:31] You have to call a therapist, you have to do something to find out what's available. And so then a good therapist will lead you to what you need. I hope because mental health is a thing and like popular right now that people really look at it more as an investment into their lives. We invest in Starbucks, we invest in, you know, shoes and clothes and things like that.

[00:30:57] But if you really think about it, like you [00:31:00] want to talk about it and make it popular, make it seem like it's the end thing on the ground. But like, What are you really doing for yourself to invest in this? Because like you said, it's not out of reach as long as you are willing to do the research and do the input.

[00:31:16] Wait. Do the research. You got to go out there. It's out there. Guarantee. Like if you, if you're looking for counseling and you don't have any money, period, you can find a counselor. The counseling doesn't change based on the price or the cost. The counseling is going to be the same and good. But if you need counseling, it's out there.

[00:31:35] I'm a, I'm an entrepreneur also so I have to position my business to be successful. And so the price point that I'm working at and the market that I'm working in is my niche. That's, that's where I'm grooving. I'm just flowing. It's all good. That's my lane. Every counselor's not going to be like me right?

[00:31:53] And so it's just all about, like you said, getting out there and finding what's available. You can't just hope for [00:32:00] it to fall into your lap. It's just not going to happen. You have to look for what you need. What are you two doing? Cause the thing is like, we are the ones that are out there in front, encouraging people to do things.

[00:32:12] And I, my question is, well, what are we doing as the, as the practitioners or the ones that are encouraging everybody to do it? So I asked you two, I hope it's not putting you on the spot too much. No, we love to talk about this stuff. What are the two of you doing to, to maintain your own mental health? We'll just be really frank and say that financially things are a little tight right now, so we're having to get creative.

[00:32:34] Um, but I have recently found an app called bloom B L O O M, and it is a cognitive behavioral therapy app. So it is like tools, every day, tools. And one of the things that has really helped me from that app is called a worry station. So like right now I have a lot of worries. The world is in the middle of a global pandemic.

[00:32:57] My business is just starting year [00:33:00] three. Things are just are hard right now. And I have a lot of worries. So I actually set up a space in my bathroom that has like twinkle lights and candles and crystals, and like all my things. And I go in there at 6:30 and I worry for 15 minutes, but I saved my worry, as much as possible. Obviously I'm still worrying throughout the day a little bit, but I'll go in there and just journal all my worries for 15 minutes. And it really has helped me even just like throughout the day, I realize I'm worrying less because I know I can go somewhere and worry when I need to.

[00:33:34] And I can save it for that. And that's only one example of like the kind of things it has me doing, but like it, I have found it so helpful. I think it's like $7 a month. And it has helped me a lot. Well, that's a good thing to plan in your worry. That's just a common coping mechanism. Like if you have a problem with worry, let's plan when are you going to worry in the day?

[00:33:54] Because you can't worry all day. And so I'm glad that this has been helpful for you. That's cool. Yeah, I really do [00:34:00] love it. For me, it's,  I have to start it my day off with meditation and prayer and some type of movement. I got into yoga for a reason. It brought me to a place of grounding. And so when I, you know, veer away from that, I can mentally tell that it's a, it's a time for me to quiet my mind and really come into, I guess, is my worry station without it being an actual station. 

[00:34:25] And then something incredible happened to me this year. I was doing a workshop on meditation for stress management and I magically got an email from a therapist that was on there and her and I built a really good relationship and I've been able to see her for little to no charge.

[00:34:46] And that just kind of fell into my lap. And so for me, it was very important because this year has been a lot and this was my first time really finding a [00:35:00] therapist. Well, she kind of found me and it matched and it worked. And, you know, I want to be an example to other black people, people in the black community to let them know that like, this is possible for us because, you know, just as well as I do, it's looked upon, it's just really now being in a place of acceptance.

[00:35:20] And so having that has really helped me. And even though we don't talk and we're not regularly scheduled, even the times that we do talk, it helps me like just to be able to get everything out. Awesome. Yeah. Well, that's, that's, that's, that's awesome. Y'all doing y'all homework. Y'all doing that. We have to, we have to, to, we, we really do.

[00:35:41] And when we get to the point that we know that we are taking on too much and outside of ourselves, we're really good with being self-aware and that we need to do something to fix it because it can be damaging to our relationship and our business. That is a learning skilled. I think we both have learned to be more self-aware, [00:36:00] especially and aware of each other.

[00:36:01] Yeah. The power of just awareness, like just becoming aware of things, it's like therapeutic. I am so glad to hear you say that. You know, that's why I became a counselor. These conversations and these interviews, I had this in mind, you know, when I was mentoring and I realized I need to kind of pivot. I had all this in mind then.

[00:36:23] And so that's why it's like, I'm grateful for this. Yeah. I, I love the idea of seeking out the right fit for you, whether that's financially or emotionally finding the right counselor, the right therapist. One of the things I love so much about therapy are the tools. So for me, finding a therapist that gives me homework is the kind of therapist that I want, you know, and I've, I have definitely cycled through therapists where I was like, You are not it.  Like, this is, this does not work for me.

[00:36:52] It's not helpful. And then I found ones that like changed my life overnight. But since I am such a tool, heavy [00:37:00] therapy fan, you mentioned earlier that you use Enneagram in your therapy. We love Enneagram. We talk about it a lot, but we haven't done a whole episode on it on the show yet. Would you mind explaining briefly what it is and how you use it in your therapy?

[00:37:16] Well, it's just a simple personality assessment. I like it to give people that introspective look at themselves. Cause when they're answering the questions, I do the Enneagram. I do the young typology assessment. When we're going through the questions, I'm just kind of watching the client as a process, what the answers would be.

[00:37:33] And then when the result comes out, I say, does this sound like this is you? And they're just like blown away. And so in counseling, there's this concept of a awareness and there's a whole modality about just bringing the person to an awareness of life. And if you can bring to the awareness of a client, their own personality, or putting together the way they operate in the world and just it together in a nice little box with a bow on it, where it's easily [00:38:00] understood, it's just enlightening.

[00:38:02] And it brings forth a level of awareness that I've seen clients build from. That's usually one of the first things that I'm doing. Unless it's like something that they'd come in and say, I specifically want to help with this. Even if they say they specifically want help with anxiety or something, I'm still going to do some type of personality assessment with them because anxiety comes and goes.

[00:38:23] I can help you resolve your anxiety or give you the tools that you like tools that you can use all day long. And then you will have it under control, but you still want to come to counseling cause you're like, I still feel like I need counseling. I don't want to end it. My anxiety is under control, but I'm not ready to end therapy.

[00:38:41] That's why I just continue building on the personality assessments and doing other assessments. And I just think it's a powerful tool to bring a person to the awareness of self. Yeah. The absence of anxiety as a starting point is so powerful. I think it's like, it's like drowning. And then all of a sudden, you're [00:39:00] not drowning anymore.

[00:39:00] You can actually start doing things with the rest of your life. It can be so debilitating. I mean, there's, there's so many things that you can do once you get your anxiety under control or your depression. The two most common issues are anxiety and depression. Um, and so those are the two most common reasons people come to counseling, but once you get to a place where you feel like that's kind of under control, most people are not ready to end therapy and so for therapists it's like, all right, so what am I going to do now? 

[00:39:27] But for me, I just take a whole other route and I still check in with anxiety and the depression. I'm going, we're going to be on another pattern, but the anxiety and depression is a part of helping you deal with that is a part of continuing to move forward.

[00:39:38] So that's just, it's just, it's just a part of my practice. Like bringing people to an awareness of self. So if we wanted to maybe recommend a male friend in our life come see you, what's the best way to do that? The easiest way is to send them to my website, Ericthecounselor.com.  It's um, the site it's up now.

[00:39:59] It's, it's, it's [00:40:00] a working fully functioning site. It's going to change in, uh, at the beginning of the year, but it's fully functioning. People can just go to my site, Ericthecounselor.com. All my contact information is there. You can book an appointment there or whatever you need to do is all easily found on that website.

[00:40:15] Ericthecounselor.com. Ericthecounselor.com. Eric, you are the first male guest on our show, duh. Yes. Oh man. Caught up in a woman's world. You literally were the first person, the first male that we wrote down to have on as a guest. As you can see, we love hearing you talk. We love the knowledge that you share with us.

[00:40:41] We're just so grateful. If you ever want to have any meditation or talk about donuts or anti-racism or anything like that on Experience Mental Health, just hit us up. We'll make sure that we link the episode that we discussed to the notes and Liz will get all the [00:41:00] other good stuff that we need so people will know exactly where to find you, because you're not going to get rid of us.

[00:41:07] Because we're just going to keep reaching out. Yeah. Actually, we do still have a link to the black men and mental health workshop that we did together. So we'll link to that as well. Well, thank you so much again, we're grateful. We appreciate everything. So, I guess that's it. And that's all.

[00:41:29] Thank you for listening to the wellness community magic podcast. If you liked this episode, leave us a review or drop us a message and tell us your favorite part. You can find us on Twitter at wellness_ pod or online at  TRILUNAwellness.com/ podcast. Tune in next week for more tough but necessary conversations about the future of self-care.

[00:41:49] If you're interested in learning more about tribal Luna or ordering one of our wellness gift boxes for a loved one or yourself, check out our website at [00:42:00] TRILUNAwellness.com.