Thanks for listening to Wellness, Community, Magic, a podcast with a pro-donut, anti-racist, Glenda-the-good-witch agenda. In this extra-special episode, Elizabeth Moore and Ashley Brooke James join Paul Moore (Elizabeth's dad) to explore his path to becoming a world-renowned plantsman and photographer. This episode is all about moss, morning rituals, and the magic of nature.
If you love nature or are craving inspiration to build your dream life, this episode is for you.
Join us next week for another delicious episode on food and bio-individuality.
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Full Transcript:
[00:00:00] When I'm in nature, I feel like all the layers of the things that aren't me start to peel off. I tune in both from a photographer's eye and a plant enthusiast. I. I let myself be still to be awed, to be totally immersed in the surrounding. When I'm in that environment I think about nothing else but what's right in front of me.
[00:00:26] And I feel like it's a reciprocal thing. And I feel like the nature, that nature is giving back to me as much as I'm giving back to that.
[00:00:37] That was the voice of Paul Moore, otherwise known as Moss man/ my dad/ when we were young, Doctor Daddy/ Daddy Paul. He is an award-winning photographer and nationally recognized plantsman who's cultivated a magical life by following his interest and curiosity. His home garden, which we call Saddleridge Sanctuary is a [00:01:00] labor of love and has been for over 30 years.
[00:01:02] It's a showcase of Tennessee native plants and a part of the United plant savers botanical sanctuary. Today, we are talking about rituals, poetry, and the magic of nature.
[00:01:15] Hi everyone. We're your hosts. Ashley Brooke James and Elizabeth Moore. Co-founders of TRILUNA, and this is the Wellness Community Magic podcast. A podcast with a pro-donut, anti-racist, Glenda-the- good witch agenda. We're here to take on diet culture by making self-care realistic, sustainable, and inclusive. So settle in, get cozy and join us on our journey to build community and redefine wellness. Let's get started.
[00:01:46] What did you do in nature this morning? What, cause you always start the morning doing something in nature and your pictures are some of the first pictures I see when I wake up in the morning, which is great because they're refreshing [00:02:00] and they put me in a place that I want to be in. So what'd you do this morning?
[00:02:04] Well, quite to some, uh, to my surprise, I, I walked out and, um, there's a type of witch Hazel that I have. Uh, that's the blooming right now as fragrant flowers, kind of coppery red color. And it bloomed this time of year, but it always surprises me when it blooms. So dad, you're, you're down in your cabin. So talk about your morning ritual, because I think you, you have a ritual unlike most people, but it's, it's very static.
[00:02:33] It happens the same way every morning. So what is it? Well, it certainly fits my personality type. Well, I get up at 4:30. I fix myself a latte. I sat down and kind of check the news briefly. And then I read for about Oh, 30 to 45 minutes uh, something inspirational to kind of get the day started.
[00:02:54] And then I fixed breakfast for your mom and take it to her, well I take her tea [00:03:00] and then I fix her breakfast so she can grab her sandwich and head out the door for work. So I get her out of the house and it's just me and the dogs and nature for awhile. So you were doing rituals before everybody was on this whole morning ritual.
[00:03:16] Let me get a morning ritual. I mean, I try to implement them in my life because I do feel better, but you've been doing this for how long now? Like, well, S uh, gosh, as long as I can remember. Actually, you know, when I was in the, uh, garden center business, You know, I had to be there kind of early, but I I'm one of those types of just can't rush out the door.
[00:03:36] So I would always, if I have to be somewhere at seven, I'll probably get up at five, you know, to have my time and still not have to rush. So I don't, I don't like to rush into anything. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I remember one of my like strongest childhood memories is dad's morning ritual, but it used to be he would make his latte, but he would have to, he ground the beans.
[00:03:58] So every morning I'd wake up [00:04:00] to the sound of, of coffee grinds, coffee being ground, and I'd go downstairs. And dad used to do his stretches in this like little corner of our house that looks out over the garden. And then there's like a row of CDs and vinyl on the wall next to it. And he used to sit in that little area and do stretches and I would go down and I would lay on top of the heater that was right next to him, like in the vent, on the floor and just fall back asleep while he did his stretches down there in the morning.
[00:04:25] So this morning ritual has been going on in some form or another for all of my life. That's awesome. So some people's morning rituals involve donuts. I would love to have a Saturday morning ritual where Five Daughters appear at my door every morning with a cup of coffee, listeners.
[00:04:46] Uh, but on the topic of donuts, if you were a donut, what type of donut would you be and why? I think I'm kind of a no-frills guy. I'd probably just do just a plain [00:05:00] glazed donut within a special occasion. Maybe have a chocolate one. I wanna, I wanna, uh, I want to amend that. I want to yes and that, because if I had to pick a donut for you, I think it would be like, kind of an old fashioned cake donut, little less sweet, but it would be like a macha flavor, or it would be like chocolate chip sesame, something that was like, had a lot of depth and complexity, but also had a lot of like grounding, earthy flavors.
[00:05:30] I think that that's the kind of donut that you would be. If I could design one that sounds about right. But existing we'll go with Oh, classic, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think we've had a lot of old classics on here. I mean, it's the foundation donut of every donut, so it makes sense. It makes sense. Yeah. Okay.
[00:05:52] So dad let's get into it. So we have you on here kind of under our magic category. We have like three pillars, you know, [00:06:00] and, uh, magic is the one that we put you under because you have throughout your life created the structure that you want, created the life that you have wanted. Um, you grew up pretty poor in, uh, in rural Tennessee.
[00:06:15] Yeah. Farm on a farm, the farming family. And then you went to California and granny and Papo called you and said, you want to start a garden center. And he said, yes. And he drove back and he started a garden center. And at the same time became an expert in native plants. And then you quit the garden center and you have a photography business this whole time on the side. And then you become a world renowned Moss expert. How do you do this? How did you start from being a farmer's son to owning your own businesses, successful ones, selling them, and then starting a whole new career later in life?
[00:06:50] Uh, Liz, I don't know if you remember this story or not. I don't know if I ever told you this, but your grandmother, my mom, always said I was from another planet. [00:07:00] I just, um, I've always been inquisitive. Just had a desire to learn. I didn't do well in school. I don't know if I had a learning disability or whatever it was or. Uh, but anyway, once the internet came on the scene, I just had this insatiable desire to learn about things in the garden center business.
[00:07:21] You know, it wasn't my real love at first, but I discovered native plants quite by accident. We were working, um, my dad and I were working 60, 70 hours a week. And we did that for months and years on end. And I actually lived in the garden center in a little efficiency apartment kind of thing. And finally, I figured out that I would just go out on hikes, like after work or whatever, just to de-stress.
[00:07:50] And I started noticing all these plants that, you know, I'd spend time in nature before, but I looked at them with a more discerning eyes and like, [00:08:00] Well, what is that plant? What is this plant? Realizing that these plants weren't sold in garden centers. And then I started thinking, Oh, well, we carry Japanese Maples and Korean Boxwoods.
[00:08:11] And why is that? So I just started paying more attention to what was around me and trying to just learn a few plants along every time I'd go out and hike. And that became an obsession. And I started buying a native plant books, ID books, Autobon field guides, anything I could get my hands on to start learning.
[00:08:33] That's kind of where it all started for me. And then with the advent of the internet and lots of resources, I was able to learn at a much rapid pace. So you left the garden center and then you became, um, a Moss expert. Can you bridge the gap between those two things? Well, long before Moss, you know, a lot of people now, these days they call me Moss man.
[00:08:56] But, uh, long before Moss was my love of [00:09:00] native plants. And I think what transpired for me was I started a native plant garden about 35 years ago, 30 to 35 years ago. And I wanted it to be a sanctuary for native plants. And it had kind of a twofold use for me. One of which was being a photographer.
[00:09:21] I started to photograph the plants in the garden and, uh, at that time stock photography was kind of a big thing. And I had connections in the gardening world and garden in garden publication. So I'd get a request for say Columbine. Well, I could probably just go out into the garden and photograph it. So I just started this archive of native plants A to Z, and I was trying to actually grow and get to know all those plants.
[00:09:48] Also having limited time to go out in nature I brought nature to me and that way I could learn the plants and every season, you know, every nuance of the plants, you know, when they were [00:10:00] blooming or when they were dormant in winter or whatever. And to this day, I'm continuing to add to the garden and, and learn about that.
[00:10:08] Well after I had been doing that for years, live on a top of a Hill, a really dry Hill that grassland really grow well in Nashville anyway and I got tired of planting grass seed, and I noticed this one patch of Moss in the lawn and I said, well, I'm just not going to plant grass seed. Now I'm just going to see what this one patch of Moss will do.
[00:10:30] So I didn't plant any grass seed that fall. In this one section, I just kept the debris off that area and watched the Moss grow and by the end of that season, it had grown over most of that area. It wasn't full yet, but it was looking really good. And then by the next year it was gorgeous. And I started posting some photos of it online and social media and people started going crazy.
[00:10:57] Like, where is this? And what is this? And how did you do it? [00:11:00] And so that's what kind of started the, the adventures in Moss. I remember before Liz and I got together and I was doing my yoga branding and I wanted people to be more intentional, like yoga as a lifestyle. And you and I, I wrote a blog. Weird is like me writing the blog.
[00:11:22] But anyway, I wrote a blog and you were one of the first people that I had and we talked about Moss and I, I remember I was just so excited to learn from you and, and just be around you. And every time that I came to the house, it was like, okay, I have this plant that's dying and what should I do? And I remember you also telling me that like, plants love rain, and sometimes sit your plants out in the rain and let them get the nourishment from the natural rain.
[00:11:52] So one of the questions that I have is what are any specific plants you would recommend for [00:12:00] beginners or gardeners or someone interested in incorporating native plants into their yard? Um, the great thing about native plants for those that aren't familiar with them, there's so much incredible diversity.
[00:12:12] My eye tends to go more toward the more delicate and the more subtle. Uh, a lot of the current plant breeders are trying to grow flowers as big as basketballs. Well, nature doesn't really like that. And a lot of time, these plants, they just fall over. They're not, you know, they might look good, but, uh, they don't have any real substance to them, but there are some really showing native plants.
[00:12:34] Uh, one of which I'll give you the common name is called dwarf, witch, alder. A L D E R. And it has these bottlebrush like flowers early spring, actually, before the leaves come out and the flowers smell like honey. It's delightful. And in the fall it turns a brilliant orange and burgundy color, fabulous fall color, and really unique branching characteristics that has a [00:13:00] very nice form that really doesn't need much of any pruning.
[00:13:03] That's a great one. Uh, another one is a plant called sweet shrub or Calla canthus it has another name, Carolina all spice. It has this ruddy red flower that smells a little bit like juicy fruit gum. And there's actually a yellow flowered form called Athens that it's like 10 times more potent than that.
[00:13:24] And you can one blooming plant and fill the entire garden with fragrance. If it's not lost on me listening to you talk about all this, that you have discovered the most important things in your life, both by accident and by observing and the combination of those two things have created and have inspired these passions for you in your life.
[00:13:47] And I think that that is magic. Like there is something truly magical about creating a life that serves you and gives you purpose simply by crafting more awareness of your surroundings. Talk to me about what [00:14:00] you, how you define magic. You've heard me talk about magic a lot over the last couple of years and how, how we use it.
[00:14:07] Um, but you've always had an interest in magic in all forms like this kind of like Etherial, other worldly, Moss and fairies kind of magic. And then also this like deeper soul movement kind of spirit magic. So how do you define it and can you talk us through that? For me, first of all, when I'm in nature, I feel like all the layers of the things that aren't me start to peel off.
[00:14:35] I tune in both from a photographer's eye and a plant enthusiast eye. I let myself be still to be awed, to be totally immersed in the surrounding. When I'm in that environment I think about nothing else but what's right in front of me. And I feel like it's a reciprocal thing. And I feel like the nature that nature is giving back to me as much as [00:15:00] I'm giving back to that.
[00:15:01] And the word numinous comes to mind. It's this, uh, having this strong, you know, religious or spiritual quality in nature. And I, I definitely connect with that. It doesn't take much to kind of open up the part of magic and awe in me. If I see one beautiful, unique thing a day, or hear one beautiful, unique thing every day, uh, it makes my day.
[00:15:25] And I try to, I try not to let that just wash by. I try to think about that deeply and what does it mean. It can be something on TV, uh, just a gesture, somebody touching somebody's shoulder or, you know, and if you, if you day or show a puppy on TV that's struggling and having a hard time, I'll start blubbering almost instantly.
[00:15:46] So, but just being attuned in a way that, well, I'm just so grateful and so thankful, first of all, for my life, I mean, that's kind of like a given, I guess, but, you know, I just can't wait for each day to [00:16:00] see what it might unveil. Dad, you have such an incredible range. Um, I think it is just as easy to cry over a poem with you as it is to laugh at a fart joke.
[00:16:12] And it's one of the things that I most love about you. You have this like, appreciation of the world that is so deep and so sensitive and so intuned, but you are also one of the funniest people I know, and you always have some sort of voice and you're always making Rachel and I laugh and much to the chagrin of our mother.
[00:16:29] It might be a fart joke and, you know, and we might, we might laugh about whatever it is. And I just appreciate that so much. And I wonder if you would talk about what it means that you recently discovered to be an HSP and what is that and how do you feel like it makes sense to you?
[00:16:45] Um, I just stumbled on this just a few days ago about an HSP. And I said, Oh, that's some other weird disorder or something. But when I started reading it, it just it's for highly sensitive person. And I started reading all the [00:17:00] traits of a highly sensitive person, and I think it, it was as accurate if not more accurate than the Enneagram test I took and I started reading it and it's like, Oh my gosh, this is, this is me.
[00:17:13] I mean, it's, it's a, it's a list of things I've printed some of them off, but it's, uh, it's just crazy how accurate it is. And your Enneagram is what? A five, which is the observer. Is that correct? That's what, the investigator? I think it's the thinker, the investigator, or the observer, which obviously makes so much sense.
[00:17:32] And I think that combined with being highly sensitive is what makes you such a unique creature. Would you mind sharing some of the things on the list? Sure. Yeah, my, my fact that's, that's one of them. Number one, you absolutely have whore or violence and cruelty of any kind, which is true. And it says it goes on, especially, uh, animal cruelty or similar brutal acts.
[00:17:57] You're frequently emotionally exhausted from absorbing other [00:18:00] people's feelings. Time pressure rattles you. That's not as much of an issue these days. You withdraw often. You're jumpy. I can be a little jumpy. You think deeply. You're a seeker, which goes along with the Enneagram. Sudden loud noise startle you. Absolutely.
[00:18:19] Your clothing matters. When I first read that, I said that doesn't apply to me, but it's more just like how clothes feel on your body. You know, I'm very particular. I wear like the same thing every day. Almost like a uniform. I love this one. Your inner world is alive and present, which is very much true.
[00:18:34] Change is extremely upsetting. Sometimes your environment is your enemy. True. You're misunderstood. Maybe, but I don't care.
[00:18:43] It's so true and it, it's even D like, I think a list is, you know, it's easy to rattle off a list. And I think a lot of that is true, but it's also like the way in which you experience the world is like in [00:19:00] vivid color, like everything is alive. Everything is influencing of your environment. Like even when you talk about your clothes, like you wear like the same kind of clothes, because the way that it touches her irritates your skin, you're so sensitive to sound and to light and having too much input.
[00:19:19] And I think that's really like part of it being an HSP, a highly sensitive person. I was gonna say, much to your mom's dismay, right? Yes. Not a highly sensitive person when the vacuum cleaner comes out and the garbage disposal goes on. Yeah. I mean, you've been in my life for around four years now and when you were reading off the list, I was like, yeah, absolutely.
[00:19:41] This matches him. And I feel like when we met, you were so relatable and all of those things that you listed off is things that I've learned from you in each encounter that I've had with you. And I appreciate you sharing that because it is so true. And I'm just. [00:20:00] You know, Liz, obviously you're her dad, but I'm your third daughter.
[00:20:05] So I just wanted you to know that, like I see that too, and I appreciate you sharing that with us. And when we talk about when Liz says things like seeing things in color, I want to talk about your photography, your landscaping, your, even the photos that you've taken of the porches for mama Nancy's company, it's just, it's breathtaking. The nature pictures, the ones that you have in the cabin, I'm like they don't even need pictures from other artists.
[00:20:35] Like they have their own creator here. Talk to us about, when did you start doing photography. Gosh, I've been shooting probably since the early seventies. And I remember back in high school where it was cool to have a, a Minolta SRT 101 and an MGB sports car, you know, so I've always kinda just liked gadgets and so camera's fall right into that.
[00:20:59] [00:21:00] But I really got serious probably in 1987, probably along in there, in that period of time, I signed up for a photography workshop in Colorado called the Crested Butte, Colorado nature photography workshops. And at that time, it was the heyday of, you know, coffee table books with a gorgeous photographs from all over the United States.
[00:21:22] And there was this that's, the environmental movement has just really taken off at that point. And I remember going out West, which, you know, it was in the summertime, which well actually for, for that part of the world is actually their spring. Wildflower is in great profusion and abundance. I mean, I'd never been out West before.
[00:21:41] I'd never seen anything like that because when you're in the garden center business, you don't see spring except at the garden center. So to be out there with all this incredible energy and beauty and like-minded people that were loving all this as much as I was, it was like, I remember coming back from [00:22:00] that trip and thinking, Oh my gosh, I've met these people and been around them for a week and I have more in common with them than anybody I've ever met.
[00:22:08] So it really was a life changing experience. And that was also the year that Liz was born. Yeah. Well, so it must have been 88 then that you went. 88. So at that point I started, uh, you know, taking trips as often as I could, you know, out West, but that would maybe be once a year, but I couldn't really photograph enough in that regard so I started spending a little bit more time, like in the smokey mountains or places I could get to a little more assessable and, uh, just photographing and photographing and just trying to really improve my craft shot, know loads and loads of film and read everything I could get my hands on.
[00:22:49] Probably in the early nineties, I sent some photographs of my native plant garden to fine gardening magazine. They immediately responded, uh, they're based in Newtown, [00:23:00] Connecticut, and they flew an editor down to interview me and they asked if I would photograph the garden for the magazine and write an article for them.
[00:23:08] So I did that. And soon after that, they, uh, asked if I'd start photographing for them as a freelance photographer. So I said, sure, you know, I've got a day job, but I'll, I'll work it in. So I started shooting assignments for them and other gardening magazines and although it wasn't my first love very formal gardens are not particularly my cup of tea, but I found that the range of photography from real subtle, like nature photography to these really vibrant, colorful gardens was just fun to shoot and it kept me practicing.
[00:23:42] I was able to continue to hone my skills in that regard and found the change of pace. You know, it was a lot of fun. And by your side, throughout your career as a photographer, you had your best friend Will, Willard Clay. Can you talk about how that relationship nourished you and [00:24:00] inspired you and why you think it's important to have peers in your field keeping you inspired and growing?
[00:24:05] Oh, absolutely. As a matter of fact, in that workshop in 1988, I befriended one of the instructors who actually was one of my mentors at the time, uh, Willard Clay. At that time in the eighties like that, there were just really a handful of photographers that traveled full time across the United States and most of them photographed with these large like view cameras, you know, with the focusing cloth, you know, that they float over their head to look at it.
[00:24:32] And the, you know, everything was all manual and, and these guys just traveled the United States and the world and photographed. And at that time, almost any image that they got they could sell to a magazine or a book company. And a lot of them did books on their own. So, uh, we became, uh, friends that even that first year, and then after that, Will said, uh, you pick a place every summer and fly out [00:25:00] and we'll spend a week or 10 days just photographing.
[00:25:02] And just me and you. So we did that for many, many years up until about 2002. We don't travel as much together these days, but we talk almost every day. That's really special. Okay, dad, you have, uh, in recent years really become quite the reader. Um, I think you've always been interested in reading and in new experiences, but you have like really become a reader and you have fallen in love with one poet in particular.
[00:25:31] Can you talk about who that is? And then I think you're going to close this out with a blessing, aren't you? I have a couple of poets that I really think quite a bit of. Uh, one is John O'Donohue, who actually is a, uh, uh, he's an Irish poet philosopher theologian, and his parents spoke Gaelic. Ever since I started reading his books, uh, the first was on the MCARA, which means soul friend.
[00:25:56] It would just like every word, almost almost [00:26:00] 80% of his books I've underlined, you know, it just looks like all one yellow. So almost every everything he says, you know, resonates with me. And I've got a couple of favorite lines from him. He, uh, and also like WS Merwin. He has some beautiful, uh, writing and, uh, one of my favorites from him is "From what we can not hold the stars are made."
[00:26:24] And another one is "We are asleep with compasses in our hand." And, uh, Mary, I can't, uh, can't leave out Mary Oliver. Uh, she was probably the first poet I read that really struck a chord with me and really made me kind of fall in love with poetry. I always liked the idea of poetry, but never really connected with the right poet.
[00:26:45] And, but when I started reading her poetry, it just really changed my life. It, uh, it's just so beautiful. And of course she writes mostly nature things, which is certainly right up my alley. Hmm. Yeah, that's special. Thank you. I [00:27:00] just. I feel like every time I'm around you or having conversations with you, I just learn something new every time or I, you bring an awareness to me that I wasn't aware of, that I was doing.
[00:27:18] Can you use aware and awareness and thanks, sure, um, it's your podcast. I mean when you talked about just being that spiritual connection in nature, that sat so deep with me because some of my most powerful prayers and moments have happened in nature. So again, we just thank you so much for being here with us and always willing to jump right in and help us and support us.
[00:27:43] I mean, he was our video guy and camera guy for the first ever event Liz and I ever did together. So again, there's so much appreciation. Yeah. Yeah, I could say thank you for the rest of this next three hours, but I, I am particularly [00:28:00] grateful for the love of nature that you instilled in me because that is also my meditation.
[00:28:06] That is my magic. That is my peace. Even like just this week, this last weekend, Brett and I went on a long walk and there's been a lot of unrest in our country and it is hard. There's a lot going on. Owning a business is hard. The work that we're doing is hard. And I just, I felt so electric with just so much energy and some of it negative and some of it good, but just like more than I could handle.
[00:28:31] And when Brent and I went on this walk, I just found this one tree. And I just was like, I need that tree. I love that tree. I need to touch that tree. And I went up and I hugged the tree. And because we had, of course, you know, Brent's making fun of me the whole time, but because we'd been hiking when I hugged, when I wrapped my arms around that tree, I could feel my heartbeat beating against the tree and I started crying and it was just like such a, a release to like give this excess energy to this tree and know that the tree could [00:29:00] handle it and then tree could take it and help me transmute that into something that I could channel and use.
[00:29:04] And I think that's a gift you've given me. You know, it's a gift, you know, for me being pretty much a, an introvert and spending a lot of time by myself. You know, when I, when I see something in nature that moves me, you know, it's, it's like, it's like finding gold, but you just can't keep it all to yourself.
[00:29:22] You just got, you know, I get so excited about it. I, I just have to share it. And, uh, and I find that when you are creative and into nature and respond that way, that to find fertile ground for those feelings is really important. Um, someone like yourself, Liz and you, Ashley that, uh, you know, some folks get it and some folks don't.
[00:29:42] So, you know, I don't need everybody to get it, but I need a few people to get it. Yeah. All right dad, do you want to close this out with your blessing? Yes. Um, I I'd like to share this blessing with you by, it's in the book Anam Cara from John O'Donohue. [00:30:00] It just really meant a lot to me. And I hope it does to your listeners as well.
[00:30:04] A blessing of solitude. May you recognize in your life, the presence, power, and light of your soul. May you realize that you are never alone, that your soul in its brightness and belonging connects you intimately with the rhythm of the universe. May you have respect for your own individuality and difference. May you realize that the shape of your soul is unique and that you have a special destiny here that behind the facade of your life, there is something beautiful, good, eternal, happening. May you learn to see yourself with the same delight, pride and expectation with which God sees you in every moment.
[00:30:44] Thank you. Very much. Well, everybody now that I'm in my zone, I think that's it. And that's all. We'll talk to you guys later. Thank you for listening to the Wellness Community Magic podcast. [00:31:00] If you liked this episode, leave us a review or drop us a message and tell us your favorite part. You can find us on twitter @wellness_pod or online at TRILUNAwellness.com/podcast. Tune in next week for more tough but necessary conversations about the future of self-care.
[00:31:17] If you're interested in learning more about TRILUNA or ordering one of our wellness gift boxes for a loved one or yourself, check out our website at TRILUNAwellness.com.